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Old 02-04-2013, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,630 posts, read 19,409,587 times
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Yes, he got a bum rap.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/wo...-bones.html?hp

Quote:
In one of Britain’s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, researchers here announced on Monday that skeletal remains found under a parking lot in this English Midlands city were those of King Richard III, for centuries the most widely reviled of English monarchs, paving the way for a possible reassessment of his brief but violent reign.

Richard Buckley, the lead archaeologist on a project to identify the bones, told reporters that tests and research since the remains were discovered last September proved “beyond reasonable doubt” that the “individual exhumed” from a makeshift grave under the parking lot was “indeed Richard III, the last Plantagenet king of England.”
Part of the evidence came from DNA testing by the geneticist Turi King, who told the same news conference that DNA samples taken from modern-day descendants of Richard’s family matched those from the bones found at the site.
The skeleton, with a gaping hole in the skull consistent with contemporary accounts of the battlefield blow that killed him, was exhumed in the ruins of an ancient priory. It was found in the same place as historians say Richard III was buried after perishing at the Battle of Bosworth in 1485.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Berkshire, England
490 posts, read 681,984 times
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Whether or not it should be Westminster is open to debate, but certainly there will be a more suitable resting place found for him than a Leicester car park.

I've been watching the TV coverage on the BBC this morning. Interesting stuff.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:31 AM
 
23,589 posts, read 70,358,767 times
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I'd been following this for about a week. Well done!
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,320,493 times
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Truly a fascinating discovery and a top-notch piece of archaeological scholarship.

However, I don't understand why finding the remains of Richard III somehow rehabilitates his reputation, or should cause history to revise its opinion of this unpleasant man. If anything, the obvious skeletal scoliosis partly confirms Shakepeare's depiction of him, and nothing in the forensic findings provides a reason to doubt his ruthless, obessive hunger for power or his guilt in ordering the murder of the princes in the Tower.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,212 posts, read 22,344,773 times
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Well done indeed!
Discovering the remains of a King after 500 years is truly a remarkable feat!

I don't know where the Plantagenet Kings are buried, but I think it's fitting that Henry's remains join them. He was the very last of that family's reign.

One of my history professors once said that after Henry was killed, by a young squire on the battlefield, the squire seized the crown off Henry's head and declared himself the King of England. His reign lasted about 10 minutes; his reign ended when Henry Tudor took the crown, and his head, away from him soon afterward.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,512 posts, read 84,688,123 times
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DAMN! I just specifically snuck on here from work to post the same article and ask if anyone else was excited about this.

Glad to see there are other such geeks on City-Data.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,512 posts, read 84,688,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Truly a fascinating discovery and a top-notch piece of archaeological scholarship.

However, I don't understand why finding the remains of Richard III somehow rehabilitates his reputation, or should cause history to revise its opinion of this unpleasant man. If anything, the obvious skeletal scoliosis partly confirms Shakepeare's depiction of him, and nothing in the forensic findings provides a reason to doubt his ruthless, obessive hunger for power or his guilt in ordering the murder of the princes in the Tower.
Read Sharon Kay Penman's The Sunne In Splendour. She has a different portrayal of him, following that of others who do not agree with Shakespeare's assessment (the "White Boar" folks). Of course, Penman is writing historical fiction, so she created the Richard she wanted him to be, just as Shakespeare did.

Here's a CNN opinion article on the subject.

Where does skeleton revelation leave legend of Richard III? - CNN.com
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:53 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,668,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Truly a fascinating discovery and a top-notch piece of archaeological scholarship.

However, I don't understand why finding the remains of Richard III somehow rehabilitates his reputation, or should cause history to revise its opinion of this unpleasant man. If anything, the obvious skeletal scoliosis partly confirms Shakepeare's depiction of him, and nothing in the forensic findings provides a reason to doubt his ruthless, obessive hunger for power or his guilt in ordering the murder of the princes in the Tower.
Well, there have been many attempts to provide a more accurate portrayal of Richard III over the years. I think the hope of those so inclined is that the discovery will lead to a little more interest in the real Richard III and not the popular character of Richard III that most know. Many of the societies dedicated to such an end will freely accept his faults and crimes as long as they are placed within the context of the times and given an accurate assessment. For instance, while we would abhor a man who killed two children, it's not as if getting rid of rival claimants for the throne, regardless of age, was an uncommon practice.

Further, it is rather widely accepted that Shakespeare willingly participated in propagating the "Tudor myth". From Thomas More's histories to Shakespeare's play's there was certainly an effort to paint the 15th century as one of total anarchy and bloodshed from the Lancastrian Henry VI to the York Richard III the Plantagenet's were painted as being inept and cruel despots. By contrast, how glorious were the Tudor's in their eyes. Many consider most of the popular writing of that time, both in histories and plays to pretty much be clever Tudor propaganda.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,320,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Well, there have been many attempts to provide a more accurate portrayal of Richard III over the years. I think the hope of those so inclined is that the discovery will lead to a little more interest in the real Richard III and not the popular character of Richard III that most know. Many of the societies dedicated to such an end will freely accept his faults and crimes as long as they are placed within the context of the times and given an accurate assessment. For instance, while we would abhor a man who killed two children, it's not as if getting rid of rival claimants for the throne, regardless of age, was an uncommon practice.
Murdering one's orphaned nephews when one was designated, as their guardian, with their protection was as despicable in Richard's time as it would be today. Such murders were not only uncommon, but practically unheard of. Hence the universal horror with which the crime was (and is) regarded.

Quote:
Further, it is rather widely accepted that Shakespeare willingly participated in propagating the "Tudor myth". From Thomas More's histories to Shakespeare's play's there was certainly an effort to paint the 15th century as one of total anarchy and bloodshed from the Lancastrian Henry VI to the York Richard III the Plantagenet's were painted as being inept and cruel despots. By contrast, how glorious were the Tudor's in their eyes. Many consider most of the popular writing of that time, both in histories and plays to pretty much be clever Tudor propaganda.
I fail to see how this exonerates Richard. As for using political propaganda to exalt or denigrate factions or individuals -- oh dear, the injustice of it all! Heck, most of what I read every day about President Obama is propaganda from one side or the other. And we have very few Shakespeares these days.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,035 posts, read 10,292,023 times
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Probably not Westminster Abbey. Edward II is buried in Gloucester Cathedral so there's precedent for more controversial kings to be buried outside of Westminster or St. George's Chapel, Windsor.
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