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Old 08-20-2013, 12:12 PM
 
12,003 posts, read 11,803,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Sally Hemmings herself is an excellent topic. Most people don't know that she was actually half sister to Jefferson's wife. They just assume she was black, and actually that is only half right.

She died free.

Perhaps Wordsmith could put an informative article together....

Actually - not that it matters morally or ethically - Sally was one quarter black, as her mother (Betty Hemings) was half-white.

Sally was only fourteen when she accompanied Jefferson's younger daughter Mary ("Polly"), who was then nine years old, to Paris, where he and his older daughter Martha ("Patsy", then aged about fifteen) were already living. She was described by Abigail Adams (with whom Sally and Polly stayed for two weeks in London prior to traveling on to France) as being very child-like at this time, and in need of supervision herself, but good-natured.

Sally remained in Paris for two years, working as a lady's maid for the two girls and possible attending school with them (she is said to have learned French during her time in France), then returned to Monticello with the Jeffersons and their other enslaved servants. Her first child, who died shortly after birth, is said to have been born a year or two after her return to Virginia, when Sally would have been seventeen or eighteen.

It's a complex story, and a very sad one in many ways.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,793 posts, read 5,627,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordsmith12 View Post
It's interesting that the only state admitted to the union while he served in office was Oklahoma.
I think you mean OHIO...
Oklahoma didn't join the Union for 100 years after Jefferson was President.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
4,436 posts, read 7,638,778 times
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In 1994, I was present for a mock trial of Thomas Jefferson. It was held at the NY Bar, and presided over by Chief Justice Rehnquist.

From what I recalled, "Jeff" was indicted on two counts of "hypocrisy".
1. Preached life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but owned slaves! (more on this!)
2. Preached small government, but bought big, large Louisiana Territory!

Attorney for the Government: Professor Charles Ogletree
Attorney for the defendant: then-Solicitor General Drew Days
(note the switch-up)

Each side gave opening statements, put two experts, apiece, on the stand and gave closings. The audience was the jury (looks like it was about 300 peeps). Verdict: by show of hands, the jury overwhelmingly acquitted Jefferson on both counts. I, myself, did not vote.

From observing the vote, it appeared that there was an obvious age difference among voting, with older audience members voting for acquittal, and younger folk voting for conviction.

Oh, yeah, on Count 1.....the Hemmings revelations didn't come out until a couple of years later! Whether that would've changed the "verdict" that day, I don't know!

This was also shown on CSPAN, some time later!
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,162,297 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman View Post
In 1994, I was present for a mock trial of Thomas Jefferson. It was held at the NY Bar, and presided over by Chief Justice Rehnquist.

From what I recalled, "Jeff" was indicted on two counts of "hypocrisy".
1. Preached life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but owned slaves! (more on this!)
2. Preached small government, but bought big, large Louisiana Territory!

Attorney for the Government: Professor Charles Ogletree
Attorney for the defendant: then-Solicitor General Drew Days
(note the switch-up)

Each side gave opening statements, put two experts, apiece, on the stand and gave closings. The audience was the jury (looks like it was about 300 peeps). Verdict: by show of hands, the jury overwhelmingly acquitted Jefferson on both counts. I, myself, did not vote.

From observing the vote, it appeared that there was an obvious age difference among voting, with older audience members voting for acquittal, and younger folk voting for conviction.

Oh, yeah, on Count 1.....the Hemmings revelations didn't come out until a couple of years later! Whether that would've changed the "verdict" that day, I don't know!

This was also shown on CSPAN, some time later!
Interesting. Was this using the mindset of the time or imposing one from a couple of centuries later?

In my US history class in High School we had debates each week on an issue defining the time we were covering. The thing was, you could not look on from the twentyth centuray but had to argue as one would have and with the reasoning one would IN the time. It was move illuminating to look into the mindset of those who lived then. And I wouldn't feel so superior now either since time passes and things change and others from our future may have a very different take on our choices than we do. What matters in a time is how the person's thinking process fit into their own time.

Would we condem a doctor who treated disease by blaming 'bad air' when that was what was believed at the time? If it was the norm then it would put them solidly in the group of those who were conventional, even if today we know its a false idea.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:40 AM
 
Location: USA
1,381 posts, read 1,749,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
I think you mean OHIO...
Oklahoma didn't join the Union for 100 years after Jefferson was President.
You're right. I was thinking of Teddy Roosevelt!
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:32 PM
 
Location: USA
1,381 posts, read 1,749,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
In my US history class in High School we had debates each week on an issue defining the time we were covering.
Sounds like fun. Wish we'd done that!
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