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Old 03-11-2013, 08:28 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Wolf View Post
Read up on how he treated his army.
He put the most inexperienced soldiers up front and gave orders to the more experienced ones to shoot them in the back if they didn't perform.

Also, when you have to have armed guards on towers to protect your borders to keep your own citizens in, pretty bad.

Way too many of his own citizens died of forced labor in Siberia.
While it all might be true, I don't see how he was worse than Hitler.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
940 posts, read 1,935,668 times
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I would not worry about Stalin being worshiped in Russia. I read and watch my share of Russian media and previously lived there and I don't see this as being the case.

I think there are a few deniers and nutcases here and there, mostly older folks, who grew up idolizing Stalin, and did not have other information to prove otherwise, and now are having a hard time changing their lifetime beliefs. Then there is a separate group of people who miss the comforts and social safety of the previous era.

I don't trust American pollsters that say he has 42% approval. This is why Putin was cracking down on these NGEO's, because they seem to be focused on misinforming the western public into believing that Russians are actually crazy.

Just like those polls that were saying Romney would win.

There is a pattern that everything that comes out of the activities of the US government on Russian soil and appears in the western mainstream media has one purpose. And it is not to show Russian achievements.

To those that say that Russia was a backward country before Stalin, it became the largest country in the world way before him.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:44 AM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetka View Post
I would not worry about Stalin being worshiped in Russia. I read and watch my share of Russian media and previously lived there and I don't see this as being the case.

I think there are a few deniers and nutcases here and there, mostly older folks, who grew up idolizing Stalin, and did not have other information to prove otherwise, and now are having a hard time changing their lifetime beliefs. Then there is a separate group of people who miss the comforts and social safety of the previous era.

I don't trust American pollsters that say he has 42% approval. This is why Putin was cracking down on these NGEO's, because they seem to be focused on misinforming the western public into believing that Russians are actually crazy.

Just like those polls that were saying Romney would win.

There is a pattern that everything that comes out of the activities of the US government on Russian soil and appears in the western mainstream media has one purpose. And it is not to show Russian achievements.

To those that say that Russia was a backward country before Stalin, it became the largest country in the world way before him.
Err.. no, Putin cracks down on NGOs for a different reason. He and his mafia gang ( the part that survived from the nineties) was born with the help of the Western banking system, i.e. with the help of the West, the US in particular. So he knows that it's the West that can kill him as well, paired with internal opposition (the internal opposition on its own is too weak, disorganized, and doesn't have funds.)
That's why he is cracking down on NGOs, particularly when it comes to foreign financing.

As for Stalin, who cares that the country was "the largest in the world before him," if it was still 90 % agrarian by the 20th century.
Of course it was backward comparably to the more advanced European countries...
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
337 posts, read 929,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

I am not sure how much Putin personally wanted to be a part of it ( meaning promotion of Stalin.)
I don't think he wanted to be part of it at all. This is one of the tropes of sloppy, biased Western reporting - the notion that "Putin is rehabilitating Stalin."

Really? Here's what Putin has actually done: Gave a speech commemorating Stalin's victims at the Butovo Memorial (an NKVD killing ground); gave an award to Solzhenitsyn and made The Gulag Archipelago required reading in Russian schools; participated with the Polish PM in a commemoration of the Katyn massacre; and expressed his contempt for Communism as an ideology and system on repeated occasions.

Putin is probably more anti-Stalinist, or at least anti-Communist, than most of the population.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:32 AM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef K. View Post
I don't think he wanted to be part of it at all. This is one of the tropes of sloppy, biased Western reporting - the notion that "Putin is rehabilitating Stalin."

Really? Here's what Putin has actually done: Gave a speech commemorating Stalin's victims at the Butovo Memorial (an NKVD killing ground); gave an award to Solzhenitsyn and made The Gulag Archipelago required reading in Russian schools; participated with the Polish PM in a commemoration of the Katyn massacre; and expressed his contempt for Communism as an ideology and system on repeated occasions.

Putin is probably more anti-Stalinist, or at least anti-Communist, than most of the population.
I agree with you here.
As I've said Putin would like to see the "USSR Lite," not the real version, because he was one of those people who have ultimately won from the fall of the Soviet system. Big time.
I don't see him wanting it all back at all.

( The Church however seems to be a different story where Stalin is concerned.)
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
940 posts, read 1,935,668 times
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Quote:
Err.. no, Putin cracks down on NGOs for a different reason. He and his mafia gang ( the part that survived from the nineties) was born with the help of the Western banking system, i.e. with the help of the West, the US in particular. So he knows that it's the West that can kill him as well, paired with internal opposition (the internal opposition on its own is too weak, disorganized, and doesn't have funds.)
That's why he is cracking down on NGOs, particularly when it comes to foreign financing.
You just proved my point. Putin ckacks down on American NGO's because they like to stir the pot and destabilize political situation in Russia, otherwise known as interfering in the internal affairs of a sovereign state.

Before US can put a missile defense system on Russian border, they need to make people think Russia is still a threat, because it is stuck in the past. Then the US think tank ('Carnegie Endowment for Peace') concots a survey that says, look Russians are still dangerous, they want Stalin back, then some journalists throw in Putin name with Stalin's name in the same sentence, then they repeat 100 times in every major newspaper. Mission accomplished, the West thinks Russia is crazy and the public will approve whatever tougher measures the government wants to undertake.

In reality these silly surveys just escalate the situation, make Americans hate Russians more, and create more tension.

In the meantime every night on Russian TV you can watch movies about Gulag and KGB arresting and torturing people, but according to Carnegie Russians have no idea about that history.

Quote:
As for Stalin, who cares that the country was "the largest in the world before him," if it was still 90 % agrarian by the 20th century.
Of course it was backward comparably to the more advanced European countries...
Russia was a major world player in the 18, 19 and beginning of 20th century. Who cares if it was 90% agrarian.

By the 18th century, the nation had greatly expanded through conquest, annexation, and exploration to become the Russian Empire, which was the third largest empire in history, stretching from Poland in Europe to Alaska in North America.


BTW if you understand Russian this is what Russians think about the activities of Carnegie Center :

Московский центр Карнеги делает прогнозы о тройном кризисе и революции в России

In short they think it's goal is stirring the pot and disinformation.

And for conspiracy lovers it would be interesting to know that CE headquarters in NY are also home to the HQ for Bilderberg Group. Furthermore, in the past the position of Honorary American Secretary General of the Bilderberg Group has been held by Joseph E. Johnson of Carnegie Endowment.

According to the American Friends of Bilderberg, the 2008 agenda dealt "mainly with a nuclear free world, cyber terrorism, Africa, Russia, finance, protectionism, US-EU relations, Afghanistan and Pakistan, Islam and Iran".

So one can ask if such ridiculous surveys are part of Bilderbergs agenda.

Last edited by konfetka; 03-13-2013 at 07:49 AM..
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:19 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetka View Post
You just proved my point. Putin ckacks down on American NGO's because they like to stir the pot and destabilize political situation in Russia, otherwise known as interfering in the internal affairs of a sovereign state.

Before US can put a missile defense system on Russian border, they need to make people think Russia is still a threat, because it is stuck in the past. Then the US think tank ('Carnegie Endowment for Peace') concots a survey that says, look Russians are still dangerous, they want Stalin back, then some journalists throw in Putin name with Stalin's name in the same sentence, then they repeat 100 times in every major newspaper. Mission accomplished, the West thinks Russia is crazy and the public will approve whatever tougher measures the government wants to undertake.

In reality these silly surveys just escalate the situation, make Americans hate Russians more, and create more tension.

In the meantime every night on Russian TV you can watch movies about Gulag and KGB arresting and torturing people, but according to Carnegie Russians have no idea about that history.

Russia was a major world player in the 18, 19 and beginning of 20th century. Who cares if it was 90% agrarian.

By the 18th century, the nation had greatly expanded through conquest, annexation, and exploration to become the Russian Empire, which was the third largest empire in history, stretching from Poland in Europe to Alaska in North America.


BTW if you understand Russian this is what Russians think about the activities of Carnegie Center :

Московский центр Карнеги делает прогнозы о тройном кризисе и революции в России

In short they think it's goal is stirring the pot and disinformation.

And for conspiracy lovers it would be interesting to know that CE headquarters in NY are also home to the HQ for Bilderberg Group. Furthermore, in the past the position of Honorary American Secretary General of the Bilderberg Group has been held by Joseph E. Johnson of Carnegie Endowment.

According to the American Friends of Bilderberg, the 2008 agenda dealt "mainly with a nuclear free world, cyber terrorism, Africa, Russia, finance, protectionism, US-EU relations, Afghanistan and Pakistan, Islam and Iran".

So one can ask if such ridiculous surveys are part of Bilderbergs agenda.
I have no idea what you are trying to prove here.
That Russian article ( to which you've posted the link) is not about "what Russians think," but it's about what certain part of Russians think, the pro-Putin crowd. If you go on different Russian sites, you can read opinions that are quite different from the one you are promoting here.
So...is Putin's Russia an authoritarian country? The answer is definitely yes.
Are there people in Russia who oppose Putin's rule? The answer again is definitely yes. Are they trying to oppose Putin because Americans want them to? The answer is no, they do it on their own accord, but would some of them like to have foreign financing? The answer again is definitely yes, because Putin's regime being as authoritarian as it is, controls the politics financially. Putin is no fool, he knows that politics in the modern world require financing, so he doesn't want to leave any chances to his adversaries, and that's why the new draconian laws came in place.
Would Americans like to use the situation to their own advantage and to bring the type of opposition to power in Russia that they'd find more convenient than Putin? The answer is again yes, but they don't have a chance, as a direct result of their actions back in the nineties. Does Putin use this anti-American sentiment that's still going strong among Russians to his full advantage? The answer again is yes.
So what's your point - I am not sure.

PS.
Quote:
Russia was a major world player in the 18, 19 and beginning of 20th century. Who cares if it was 90% agrarian.
Who cares?
I guess Russians did. I mean the reason why Russian Empire practically collapsed during the WWI was precisely the backwardness of the country - that's the main reason why Bolsheviks came to power, why else? And the whole Stalin's industrialization ( and collectivization that came with it) as brutal as they were, were direct consequence of the backwardness and delayed development of monarchist Russia.
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