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Three things probably influence our perception of the Spanish civil war to put it in that light.
1. Franco was indeed a fascist.
2. The Republicans or loyalists actually did win a free and fair election so the nationalists were usurpers.
3. Guernica (which I am rather surprised I am the first person to mention in this thread).
Yes, Fox leans a little right, but keep in mind there are lots of opinion shows on Fox that lean right, not their news. If you just look at their news reports, they've been repeatedly found to be closer to the center.
So even if I give you Fox as right-leaning, liberals have:
ABC
NBC
CBS
CNN
Headline news
MSNBC
PBS and its various versions
So if you're just talking basic cable TV, it's all Left except for some shows on one channel.
.
Hmmm, I count seven, you promised 25-50. Further, if you are going to define Fox News as merely "right leaning", than at worst all save MSNBC on your above list are "left leaning" rather than liberal.
I also note that you have conveniently overlooked all of the televangelist programming on the airwaves, none of which appear to be left oriented or even left leaning.
Hmmm, I count seven, you promised 25-50. Further, if you are going to define Fox News as merely "right leaning", than at worst all save MSNBC on your above list are "left leaning" rather than liberal.
I also note that you have conveniently overlooked all of the televangelist programming on the airwaves, none of which appear to be left oriented or even left leaning.
I said news and media sources, not TV channels.
Do televangelists talk about politics or news? I wouldn't know, since I never watched. Wasn't being "convenient"; they were just not even on my radar. But lots of churches and preachers have bought into the whole "social justice" thing which is a veiled liberal message so I'd be willing to bet lots of televangelists lean left, even if they don't realize it themselves (for example they might be against abortion but for big government). But I don't think people turn to televangelists to get info on the news/ current events or politics. And if it's for entertainment, many more people watch network and cable comedies and dramas, and reality shows, and I would think very, very few watch televangelists. Does anyone really watch those?
Keep in mind that if you've been inundated with liberal messages in all forms of media, including entertainment, plus in the eduational system, you're likely to see some news sources (and textbooks) as "neutral" when in reality they are very slanted left.
Can the poor OP just get back to the damned Spanish Civil War?
But this thread is supposed to be about the Spanish Civil War.I merely brought up the domination of eduation and the media by the left as an explanation for what the OP found. I did not post that opinion to get off-topic, but to answert his question.
You baited me into getting off-topic, and I let myself be baited. (Sorry mods, I should have resisted.)
This is why I stay out of the political forums on C-D, since they are mostly filled with very left-leaning posters.
You wandered into the History forum and made it P&OC by starting on about liberal media and education bias. The question has a "non-political" answer as evidence by what RandomStudent posted...
The fact that the Republicans supported the democratically elected government while the Nationalists were leading the coup against it based on nothing more then the fact they didn't like the make-up of the government. Leading a coup against a democratic government doesn't usually make you the "good guy".
The fact that the Nationalists were in fact Fascists and were supported by Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy that we would soon find ourselves embroiled in war with. Fascism doesn't generally get the "good guy" nod in modern history.
The fact that while both sides committed atrocities, the scale of atrocities and mass murders committed by the Nationalists was much greater. The Nationalists also bombed cities, most infamously Guernica where nearly 75% of the city was reduced to ruins. Bombing of civilian cities was a relatively new concept and quite shocking. Committing atrocities and mass murder worse then your enemy, generally doesn't make you the "good guy".
Finally, you have the fact that Franco and his regime aren't exactly a "warm and fuzzy" period in the minds of most Spaniards. While Franco moved away from the brutal oppression he was infamous for in the early years of his rule and his later economic success overshadowed the human rights abuses; he is generally not remembered fondly. Being considered a dictator and not exactly thought of fondly by most of your former subjects makes you, not the "good guy".
So, whoever was fighting against the military coup led by the brutal fascist dictator, regardless of their own philosophy, tends to come out as the "good guys". With or without the "liberal media".
So why didn't you say all that at the beginning? Like I said, my memory is fuzzy about the facts of the war (and I'm not about to trust wikipedia for reasons you'll understand)
Like I said right up front, all I have to go on is high school and college classes with instructors who emphasized all the "positives" of socialism and any conflict on which socialists took sides was the "good" side. If the OP's educational experience was anything like mine, then my answer would have also been helpful to him, obviously only as a supplement to the facual info you and others can provide about the actual war.
I just always want to remind people to "consider the source" whenever they are analyzing some bit of info from history. You still might come out on the same side, but at least you would have tested your sources.
Can the poor OP just get back to the damned Spanish Civil War?
I do not see how any of this is preventing the above. You could have quickly disposed of this sidebar had you simply written... "Yeah, okay, I was exaggerating." Instead you dug in your heels for a defense.
Quote:
Keep in mind that if you've been inundated with liberal messages in all forms of media, including entertainment, plus in the eduational system, you're likely to see some news sources (and textbooks) as "neutral" when in reality they are very slanted left.
And of course it is not possible that someone with a right wing orientation would view a left leaning presentation and see it as liberal.
Like I said right up front, all I have to go on is high school and college classes with instructors who emphasized all the "positives" of socialism and any conflict on which socialists took sides was the "good" side. If the OP's educational experience was anything like mine, then my answer would have also been helpful to him, obviously only as a supplement to the facual info you and others can provide about the actual war.
To be honest I seriously doubt many high school or even college history classes focus all that deeply on the Spanish civil war and I would bet most Americans know very little about it.
In fact the only high school class I remember focusing on it was art history because of Guernica's (the Picaso painting) artistic significance.
1) The aid Hitler provided was really massive compared to what Stalin gave the other side.
2) The left didn't know what they wanted. Their side was a mishmash of locals and foreign adventurers. At some point, the many fractions disagreed and started fighting each other. In any case, there was no intention of establishing Stalin like communism, nor any dictatorship. That being the case, if the left won, another civil war was possible.
3) While Franco ruled later over a fascist state, he surprisingly distanced himself from Hitler and Mussolini.
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3) While Franco ruled later over a fascist state, he surprisingly distanced himself from Hitler and Mussolini.
Franco was no fool. After a meeting with Franco in which he tried to embroil him in the war against Britain Hitler said he'd rather have several teeth removed than talk again with Franco.
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