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Old 03-12-2013, 08:13 AM
 
9,291 posts, read 7,884,187 times
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Usta

I always thought catholicism and islam were shunned by nazism.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Here.
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Ever hear of Jewish Nazis?

(there were some)
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
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Most Germans were Christians. Most front-line soldiers did not want the war and did not know about it when it started. They thought they were defending their country and did not know about the atrocities of the special units.

All they wanted to do was go home for Christmas.

Reflections on German Christmas during WWII
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Toronto
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Pope Pius XII struck a deal with Hitler that largely protected the Catholic Church from Nazi persecution. If you want to read about it, there's a book by British journalist John Cromwell called Hitler's Pope, which explains the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Nazi regime in great detail.

in addition, Many priest were Nazi sympathizes, and countless Nazi war criminals escaped to South America using the so-called 'Rat Lines', where church officials gave them shelter, and obtained false papers and visas for Nazis wanted for war crimes so they could emigrate to South American and avoid prosecution.

Throughout Europe, Nazi war criminals were protected, sheltered, and hidden by the Catholic Church. As recently as the 80's, these fugitives were found to be living with their families in European monasteries.

There is a great deal of information available on this subject. If you are interested, do an Internet search and find some book titles that deal with Rat Lines, and the Catholic Church's facilitation of the escape of Nazi war criminals. It is a shocking story, and IMO, yet another great stain on the Catholic Church.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:28 AM
 
Location: IL
2,992 posts, read 4,640,137 times
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Damn Croats
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by almost3am View Post
Damn Croats
Huh? What do the Croats have to do with any of this?
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:42 AM
 
Location: IL
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Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
Huh? What do the Croats have to do with any of this?
Did you read the link in the original post?
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:53 AM
 
14,781 posts, read 37,937,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
Huh? What do the Croats have to do with any of this?
The Ustase that were highlighted as the topic of the OP was an organization of Croatian Nationalists/Fascists. After Germany and Italy took over the territory of Yugoslavia the Ustase formed a fascist government that exercised nominal control over Croatia though was technically a dual protectorate of Italy and Germany (so never actually it's own independent state). The Ustase set about racially cleansing Croatian territory of Serbians (their main target) and Jews often in extremely barbarous ways. The Ustase were pretty much a wildcard that while nominally controlled by Germany and Italy neither did much to curb their behavior. Ustase activity was one of the galvanizing points for the Yugolsav Partisan groups that forced Germany and Italy to commit forces to the area. The Ustase were also fanatically Catholic and after the war members were spirited to Canada, Australia, Germany and South America via underground organizations operating under the protection of the Catholic Church. The 13th Waffen-SS Mountain Division Handschar was formed to help counter the partisans and was made up largely of anti-Serbian Muslim's from Bosnia and Croatian Ustase.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Here.
14,814 posts, read 13,690,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
Pope Pius XII struck a deal with Hitler that largely protected the Catholic Church from Nazi persecution. If you want to read about it, there's a book by British journalist John Cromwell called Hitler's Pope, which explains the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Nazi regime in great detail.

in addition, Many priest were Nazi sympathizes, and countless Nazi war criminals escaped to South America using the so-called 'Rat Lines', where church officials gave them shelter, and obtained false papers and visas for Nazis wanted for war crimes so they could emigrate to South American and avoid prosecution.

Throughout Europe, Nazi war criminals were protected, sheltered, and hidden by the Catholic Church. As recently as the 80's, these fugitives were found to be living with their families in European monasteries.

There is a great deal of information available on this subject. If you are interested, do an Internet search and find some book titles that deal with Rat Lines, and the Catholic Church's facilitation of the escape of Nazi war criminals. It is a shocking story, and IMO, yet another great stain on the Catholic Church.
Since there is so much information out there, I'm sure that you are also aware that many Catholics, including priests and nuns were also persecuted and killed by the Nazis. Also many Jews were saved from the Nazis by Catholics. And the Pope really didn't have a choice of standing up against the Nazis since the Nazis had control of all of Italy. Not like the few dozen Swiss Guards could take on Hitler. Since the war, many prominent Jews commended the work of the Pope and the Church during the war.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:02 PM
 
14,781 posts, read 37,937,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Since there is so much information out there, I'm sure that you are also aware that many Catholics, including priests and nuns were also persecuted and killed by the Nazis. Also many Jews were saved from the Nazis by Catholics. And the Pope really didn't have a choice of standing up against the Nazis since the Nazis had control of all of Italy. Not like the few dozen Swiss Guards could take on Hitler. Since the war, many prominent Jews commended the work of the Pope and the Church during the war.
Of course many Catholics, priests and nuns included, were victims of the Holocaust. Often the priests and nuns died as a result of refusing to abandon the people of their diocese or for hiding people Jews, Roma and Christians alike. Many individual priests and nuns also went to great lengths to protect and help the people that they could.

However...

The position of the Vatican and Holy See was always the preservation and expansion of Catholic influence, power and wealth. Pious XII negotiated a careful balancing act of remaining neutral while saying the right things and taking the right actions to placate whomever he needed to. In the same breath that he told Petain that Catholic teaching did not conflict with the Vichy anti-semitism statutes, he made it acceptable via papal bull for American Catholics to provide aid to the Soviet Union. While he ignored the actions of the Ustase and even gave them passing acceptance, he passively assisted in the hiding of Roman Jews from Nazi persecution. While he would not accept the forced conversions of people of the Eastern Orthodox faith as valid, he refused after the war to turn over Jewish orphans that had been "baptized" and sheltered by Catholic charities to Jewish organizations believing that the children were "Catholic" and should be raised as such.

The tale of the Vatican and Pious XII in WW2 is one where political necessity and opportunity trumps faith and humanity. Could Pious have done more? In terms of tangible action? No, he couldn't have done anything beyond symbolic action. Morally though, he could have acknowledged and spoken out about what was happening. If that meant that he and his cardinals were drug from the Vatican and put in a concentration camp, then he would have gone down as one of the great martyrs for living up to the convictions of the faith he professed.
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