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There have been many recent threads on the history forum about the holocaust. Now, we can argue what the "term" holocaust means, etc. However, in general in this day and age, the term holocaust refers to the systematic killing of Jews (and others) during and before World War II. That is a very brief personal definition.
In an attempt to help educate ALL of us of this horrific issue, I have put together several websites. These websites, if you take the time to read through them, you will learn mass amounts of information. Whether you study the holocaust in depth, or you briefly even know what it is.
My goal is NOT to change the minds of the holocaust deniers/revisionist's. No amount of information will do that. The goal is to educate those who want education. As time goes on, I shall add other websites with information from death camps, to concentration camps, to personal stories, etc. Yes, a concentration camp and a death camp are two different things.
There are MANY persons who come to the history forum who are much more knowledgeable then I. I encourage their support and additions to what I am putting out here.
My goal is NOT to change the minds of the holocaust deniers/revisionist's.
I wonder if the holocaust deniers actually think the holocaust didn't happen. Or, they really do think it happened but they just publicly deny it for political or other purposes.
Action T4 was the beginning of the Nazi's Regime in "euthanasia." They took mostly mentally retarded, and physically handicapped, and murdered them. Some were gassed, some were starved too death, and some were killed with medication.
Contrary, however, to popular belief, that Hitler and the Nazi's could do anything they wished and not fear the citizens of Germany, the citizen's stood up to these killings and Hitler, himself, ordered them stopped. They weren't totally stopped, however the program was made more covert and the killings greatly reduced.
A great deal of false knowledge is about these two issues. Concentration camps and death camps ARE NOT the same things. Most people believe they are and, unfortunately, it gives to the holocaust deniers ammunition. If you want to argue the holocaust, you MUST know the difference between the two. I shall start out with the concentration camps and later, explain the death camps.
The poster "boy" of concentration camps was Dachau. Dachau was built in 1932 and commissioned by Himmler. Its design was to house political prisoners and became Germany's poster boy for concentration AND death camps throughout Germany.
Interesting of note, Dachau was commissioned in 1932 and was liberated in 1945. It is the longest lasting concentration camp in German history (I've been there twice). Dachau is located just outside of Munich and is easily accessible by bus.
During this time, over 10 years, only approximately 100K people died. Mostly through normal deaths, starvation, disease, and the occasional killing. However, concentration camps WERE NOT the killing fields most people think of.
Action T4 was the beginning of the Nazi's Regime in "euthanasia." They took mostly mentally retarded, and physically handicapped, and murdered them. Some were gassed, some were starved too death, and some were killed with medication.
Contrary, however, to popular belief, that Hitler and the Nazi's could do anything they wished and not fear the citizens of Germany, the citizen's stood up to these killings and Hitler, himself, ordered them stopped. They weren't totally stopped, however the program was made more covert and the killings greatly reduced.
Yes, it was made more covert, but the killings didn't really end and the aim was to eliminate the drain of the weak and useless, and in the end it was carried out.
At about the same time, a policy was announce that any German, regardless of racial identification--including 'pure' Germans were subject to sterilization if they had children who were deficiant. Or if they themselves were subject to a laundry list of 'conditions'. 'Deficiant' children were to be killed at birth. This was publically announced. It did not go well with the German public, and churches and newspapers opposed it. Supposedly, it was 'cancelled'.
But all doctors were required to report such cases. If the child was a pure German, instead of dying then, it was tracked and as children with health problems went to the hospital, nobody would question their death. This policy never really went away, but was simply gone underground. It was believed that many of these things were genetically linked and it was a high goal of a true Nazi to rid the pure German people of imperfections.
Of course, it has to be noted that the majority of these early acts would have gone unquestioned once things got firmly under control and people knew better. German women *were* forcably sterilized for a list of reasons none the less.
This should have been a hint of the ruthlessness of the Nazi regium in dealing with non 'good Germans' if he could be so cutthroat to his own people. But once it was realized that these blunt measures would backfire if pressed publically, those in charge learned a lession about smoke and mirrors.
If you have not seen it, watch the 1985 film, Shoah. It took 11 years to make, and 5 years to edit. It was edited down to an epic 9 1/2 hours, and yet it contains not a single frame of archival footage. It is stunning, sobering, and will stick with you forever.
I've been reading intently on WWII and Nazi Germany, Hitler and most of all the Holocaust. As I grow older, I become more interested, for some reason. It is a supremely painful part of history but one I want to dig deep to understand...
Thanks for the links. The Holocaust Museum...everyone should see at least once.
Hulu.com has a free movie titled "The Relief of Belsen", excellent regarding the concentration camp and Bergen camp as well. British liberated the camp but more woes were to come...those 60,000 were so malnourished/ill, it took months to find proper foods they could tolerate...many continued to die even after the liberation. Little medicine and staff were available but they did their best to aid the remaining survivors.
The movie is interspersed with real footage of the camp just after liberation...some of the images I had not seen before-they were very disturbing, but so important to view...something we should all remember.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
There have been many recent threads on the history forum about the holocaust. Now, we can argue what the "term" holocaust means, etc. However, in general in this day and age, the term holocaust refers to the systematic killing of Jews (and others) during and before World War II. That is a very brief personal definition.
In an attempt to help educate ALL of us of this horrific issue, I have put together several websites. These websites, if you take the time to read through them, you will learn mass amounts of information. Whether you study the holocaust in depth, or you briefly even know what it is.
My goal is NOT to change the minds of the holocaust deniers/revisionist's. No amount of information will do that. The goal is to educate those who want education. As time goes on, I shall add other websites with information from death camps, to concentration camps, to personal stories, etc. Yes, a concentration camp and a death camp are two different things.
There are MANY persons who come to the history forum who are much more knowledgeable then I. I encourage their support and additions to what I am putting out here.
Many persons confuse Concentration Camps with Death/Extermination Camps. The two are, actually totally different. However, because of alot of reasons, they get intermixed with one another. THAT allows the Holocaust Denier's ammunition for their cause.
A concentration camp, I shall use Dachau as its the oldest camp and was used as a "template" for other camps, as our poster boy. Dachau was started in 1932. It housed, at the time, primarily political prisoners; as most concentration camps did: Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Sachsehausen, etc. These are all concentration camps, which primarily WERE NOT for killing.
Yes, MANY were killed. MANY. Yet, most were killed through starvation, disease, and yes, unfortunately, the random killing from SS guards, etc. However, their primary design WAS NOT the mass killing of human beings (read Jews here).
Let us go back to Dachau. Dachau was opened on March 33, 1933. It operated until April 24, 1945. So, for about 12 years of its operation, approximately 35 thousand+ persons were killed. Now, let us compare that with say, Treblinka (A death camp, which I'll explain what this is later).
Treblinka operated from July 23, 1943 until October 19, 1943. Three months. During this time 700 to one million persons were killed. Based upon time, Treblinka was and is, the most effect killing camp in modern history. Now compare the two: Dachau and Treblinka. You can see they are totally different in their designs and concepts.
I've been reading intently on WWII and Nazi Germany, Hitler and most of all the Holocaust. As I grow older, I become more interested, for some reason. It is a supremely painful part of history but one I want to dig deep to understand...
Thanks for the links. The Holocaust Museum...everyone should see at least once.
Hulu.com has a free movie titled "The Relief of Belsen", excellent regarding the concentration camp and Bergen camp as well. British liberated the camp but more woes were to come...those 60,000 were so malnourished/ill, it took months to find proper foods they could tolerate...many continued to die even after the liberation. Little medicine and staff were available but they did their best to aid the remaining survivors.
The movie is interspersed with real footage of the camp just after liberation...some of the images I had not seen before-they were very disturbing, but so important to view...something we should all remember.
You are more then welcome and, with support of persons such as you, we shall never let ignorant, stupid persons, pervert the truth.
Hitler believed the "Jew" was one of the major causes of the economic downfalls of Europe and, moreover, Germany. He blamed the Jews for just about everything bad which became of Germany. Because of this he started many "pogroms" against the Jews (and others) in Germany, before WWII.
Let us fast forward to January 20, 1942 and the Wannsee Conference. It was here, Reinhard Heydrech, on the direct orders of Himmler, came up with the "Final Solution to the Jewish Situation." In short: The greatest mass murder in modern history. The direct, roundup, deportation, and murder of 5.8 million to 6.2 million Jews and others.
In the beginning, mobile killing forces were used. After their ineffencieny and the psychological damage to the killers were recognized, a more expedient way of killing was found. This was in the form of carbon monoxide gas from truck engines, pumped into gas chambers. Later, Zyklon B was used. In order to kill large groups of Jews, a series of Death Camps were constructed in Poland. This was done for alot of reasons, primarily they were on railroad lines and, moreover, the were FAR away from allied lines.
Jews were taken from their homes, sent to ghettos and, as space was available, shipped to death camps. They were killed, via gassing, and their bodies burned in mass graves and cremetoria. Against most peoples thoughts, even the German's did not purposely burn people alive; although some were still alive, because of the poor use of carbon monoxide.
Certain camps were designed for the death of these Jews and others. There design were for killing and nothing else. There are generally, 6 recognized death camps (although there is disagreement about these):
The only surviving camp is Birkenau. The rest were destroyed, before wars in, to cover up the Nazi Holocaust. The buried dead were dug up and burned. The camps leveled and, in most cases, flowers/trees were planted over the spots.
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Action T4
