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Old 04-30-2013, 06:06 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 4,837,014 times
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perenisite please course in the history of Russia and Poland tops my app! I will continue to quickly get to this point, about which you have obvinili liar
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:21 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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According to the "rough" (for Germany) Treaty of Versailles predators winners Germany were allowed to have armed forces of not more than one hundred thousandth of the land army. Compulsory military service was abolished in Germany, most of the surviving Navy nontransferable winners. Germany pledged in the form of reparations to compensate the losses incurred by the governments and citizens of the Entente as a result of military action. Determining the size of reparations was assigned to a special Reparations Commission.
It was a terrible katasrofa for the Germans.
Were still in the Treaty of Versailles two interesting articles. This article about Russia. Russia took part in the bloody World War I in August 1914 to a coup in October 1917. In this war for three years, were killed 1.2 million soldiers and officers, the vast majority - Russian. Died of wounds 240,000 people died of gas poisoning - 11,000 people. Total deadweight loss - 1,450,000 people. Died from the disease - 155,000 died in captivity - 190,000 have died from accidents and other causes - 15,000 people. Total irrevocable non-combat losses - 360,000.
Total loss bezvozratnye Russia - 1,811,000 people...
But it is clear that predators winning at Versailles ignored Russia's involvement in the bloody war, have not considered the huge loss of Russia and Russian people. Russia, these predators are not only yielded nothing, nor a piece, but even deprived of the Kingdom of Poland.
According to Article 116, Germany was required to recognize and pledged to respect "as a permanent and inalienable the independence of all the territories of the former Russian Empire to the 1st August 1914." Germany also had to "finally recognize the abolition of the Brest-Litovsk treaty, as well as any other contracts, agreements or conventions concluded with its maximalist Government in Russia." Can anyone think that this is good for Russia, but it is a misconception. Predators are winning that is torn and humiliated Germany, expected in the future to devour, dissect and humiliate predator Russia and the Russian people.
Article 117 I will give in full:
"Germany undertakes to recognize the full force of all treaties or agreements which the Union or Associated Powers would have concluded with States that were formed or formed in the whole or part of the territory of the former Russian Empire as it existed in the 1st August 1914, and to recognize the borders of these states how they will be set accordingly. " (Results of the imperialist war. Series of peace treaties. 1. Versailles. M. 1925).
Predators-winners planned to tear, and dismember Russia and predator. And defeated Germany obliged to accept any plan for the dismemberment of a weakened Russia. Such a plan, some predators have been. And, above all, they agreed to accept the office of Russian Kingdom of Poland.

So, for the Poles bloody First World War proved to be very beneficial. Without significant losses and expenses again revived in 1918 on the planet predatory State Poland. The Treaty of Versailles that Poland got cut off from Germany, Poznan, Pomerania and other parts of the territory of West Prussia. Gained access to the Baltic Sea. And hoped that as a result of the plebiscite still receive tidbits.

The Poles were satisfied that all the participants in the war were very relaxed. Almost 10 million Europeans died - that's fine. Nearly two million dead "Muscovites" - that's fine. But the Poles, of course, it was not enough. Predatory Poland zhadet tear chunks of Czechoslovakia, parts of Germany, and most of all eager to grab huge chunks of the east..
Back in Russia,
When ended November 11, 1918 World War I, Lenin's government unilaterally rejected the Brest-Litovsk Treaty. The Germans and Austrians at the time occupied a vast territory in two, 5tysyachi kilometers, which stretched from the Baltic Sea to the Sea of ​​Azov. Was occupied Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia. Now the German troops were forced to withdraw from the occupied territories. After them marched the Red troops.

Lenin's government even signed a secret agreement with the Germans to red immediately able to take the vacated territory. Red troops moved west along the Baltic States, Belarus and Ukraine. Entered December 10, 1918 in Minsk, entered January 6, 1919 in Vilna. Wherever come red states red order.

But the goal prozhidovskogo Lenin's government is not only an affirmation of the order of red in the western lands of the former Russian Empire. Lenin was eager to spread the red (if we consider the developments in the national aspect - Jews' order), and outside of the former Russian Empire. Decree of the CPC August 29, 1918, Lenin recognized the rejection of the contracts of the former Russian Empire on the partitions of Poland and the Polish people recognized the right to self-determination. But after a few months of Lenin is planning to introduce in Poland the Red forces in Poland and adopt the red order. In the first place an extremely important thing - to move to the west of the red (under the control of the Jews') revolution. After Poland's Lenin was planning to send troops ... on Berlin.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:29 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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It is very important to understand. Communist Lenin is going to expand by means of bayonets red (under the control of the Jews), the space to the west, a National Socialist Pilsudski is going to expand by bayonets Polish fascist space to the east.
November 17, 1918 Lenin army launched its first "Red march" to the west to bring the bayonets first revolution in Lithuania and Belarus. A Jew November 18, Leon Trotsky, speaking in Voronezh, in its report "Guarding of the world revolution," said: "... a free Latvia, Lithuania and Poland free and free Finland, on the other hand, free Ukraine will not have wedge, a connecting link between Soviet Russia and the future Soviet Germany and Austro-Hungary. This is the beginning of the Federation, the start of the European Union proletarian communist federation of republics in Europe. "
Lenin and Trotsky - for the Red (under the control of a Jewish) Federation of European states, Pilsudski - for a federation of Poland, Belarus, the Baltic states and Ukraine ... Two-predator aggressor.
On the night of January 1, 1919 was proclaimed in Smolensk, Byelorussian SSR, and on 27 January it included and Lithuania. The newly minted education has been called the Lithuanian-Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic (Litbel). The authorities were staffed mainly of Communists of Polish descent, also of the Jews. Was created and the "Revolutionary Military Council of Poland", which, after the defeat of the army of Pilsudski was supposed to be the government of "Soviet Poland."
In the spring of 1919 Head of Poland Pilsudski marched his troops to the east.

Poles invaded Soviet Russia, Belarus, the Baltic states and Ukraine. To argue that this is a response to the onset of "Muscovites" - idiotic. Pilsudski, like Lenin, sought to maximize expansion. Polish troops quickly occupied the territory, which freed the Germans. Just as Lenin, Pilsudski signed a secret agreement with the Germans to immediately and quickly occupy the territory, which left the Germans.

In the Baltics and Belarus, Poles and red were to meet, and they met and started killing each other. Poles began to push the Reds.
General Denikin wrote: "Suffice to say that by the end of 1918, with the collapse of the Austro-German defensive cordon of 400,000 Soviet army was operating 300 000 was bound by white fronts, and only 100,000 unfolded more than 1,000 kilometers from Lake Onega to Orsha on the Dnieper, against Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. Poland took advantage of this fact and, encountering little resistance to the Bolshevik troops, advanced to his front Dvina and Berezina happened.
April 19, 1919 Polish cavalry came in Vilna. Two days later there arrived Jozef Pilsudski and delivered an address to the Lithuanian people. Pilsudski proposed to return to the Polish-Lithuanian union, which was still in the 16th century. April 28 Poles occupied the city of Grodno, abandoned by the Germans. In May and July came from France 70000th Polish army Jozef Haller (of Poles in different countries). It was also called the "Blue Army" for the color of the uniforms of soldiers and officers. At this time (with the permission of the Council of Ministers of Foreign Affairs of Great Britain, France, USA and Italy), under the control of the Poles goes Western Ukraine (Eastern Galicia). By July 17 Western Ukraine (Eastern Galicia) was completely occupied by the Polish army, the administration of the West Ukrainian People's Republic (ZUNR) is eliminated.
In July and August 1919, the Poles continued to drive the Reds in Belarus. After a six-hour battle on August 9 Polish forces seized the Belarusian capital, Minsk, on August 29, despite the stubborn resistance of the red, the Poles captured Bobruisk.
But the onset of the autumn of 1919 the Poles suddenly stalled. Minded rulers of England and France did not immediately understand. According to their plans Pilsudski forces were to unite with Denikin's Volunteer Army, which was advancing on Moscow, and work together to put an end to the government of Lenin. Therefore, helped France, England and the United States Poles. And now, on the Polish-red front lull. Did not realize at first and Denikin. Pilsudski insisted that was about to speak. After all, it was clear that the joint force would be enough to do away with Lenin.
Pilsudski on all sides said that he wants to put an end to Bolshevism, it is his main goal, but now there is a chance, but from Pilsudski zero activity. The reasons for "calm" later explained clearly Anton Denikin in "Essays Russian Troubles" and in a separate article, "Who saved the Soviet regime from death."...
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:38 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 4,837,014 times
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Continue? No need to question my knowledge of history. If you get to the '25 and up to 38, then everything will fall right into place. So no need to doubt the knowledge of history and it would be better respected admitted that you do not know her. So it would be more honest. I have a night. all have a nice day guys!
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Troy Hill, The Pitt
1,179 posts, read 1,426,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
As much as I argued earlier that "Ukrainian genocide" recently promoted as such was a bogus, because Stalin was an equal opportunity destroyer and an internationalist big time; (anyone could be sentenced to death or exiled no matter what nationality, because his reasoning was first of all political, not racial,) in case of Chechens I'll admit that this time around he targeted them specifically as an ethnic group. What's even worse - having family ties in Caucasus, I can understand where he was coming from, being a native of Caucasus himself.
This article ( to which you gave a link) has been written in 2001, three years earlier than the events in Beslan took place, and as bad as it sounds, as far as I'm concerned had he ( Stalin) succeeded, may be we wouldn't have to witness the atrocities that only Chechens can orchestrate in the region.
Stalin's idea to disperse them throughout the country was not by all means new; the most progressive Russian nobility of the 19th century had the same plans for Chechens, ( or rather for all "militant people" of Caucasus, to which Chechens definitely belong.)
Their culture doesn't come across as something native to Caucasus, where other ethnicities lived for ages since biblical times, skilled in crafts and agriculture. The best guess I can make, is that Chechens are either the leftovers of Arab tribes that conquered Caucasus in 7th century, or someone heavily mixed with Arabs. So if the scene in these videos all of a sudden becomes reminiscent of the Middle East, there is a reason for it.


BESLAN HOSTAGE OPERATION MUJAHIDEEN VIDEO 1 - YouTube



Beslan School Massacre, Dramatic Scenes, 2004 [HD] - YouTube



Caucasus had a long history of division between Christian culture and Islamic culture, but even in case of Azeris ( who are basically former Iranians) there was never such treacherous and kniving behavior that you encounter in Chechens, who have totally different "code of honor" stubbing you in the back after smiling at you a minute earlier. No one but Chechens have tendency to decapitate their adversaries also.
Stalin's native Georgia ( as much as neighboring Armenia) were historically protected by Russia from Turks and the threat of Islam - that's how they've retained their original cultures; so in many ways I can see why Stalin didn't trust Chechens, felt suspicious about them and kicked them out from Caucasus. Ingush and some other ethnic groups of Northern Caucasus come pretty close to Chechens with their cultures resembling the Arab culture, but Chechens are usually the masterminds behind it all.
When you see the piranha in the lake where it doesn't belong, you know that it destroys the eco-system.
There is no reason for Caucasus to be like the Middle East, which now it reminds of because of Chechens.

It does indeed sound bad, because you're using the racial makeup of a people to explain their behavior and justify genocide.

Terrorism creates terrorism. The Chechen people and the acts they commit are the product of Russian crimes against humanity. The primary simularity between Chechnya and the Arab countries you're referencing exists in the atrocities committed against them, which has in turn created a militant culture.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
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My father stood with in reach of Stalin and all he thought was how can I kill this guy and live.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:41 PM
 
18,314 posts, read 15,376,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinity1111 View Post
Was there ever a 'final count' or "final estimation" of how many millions died under Stalin's leadership and the civilian casualties of WW II ?
Yes, there was a "final countdown" back in the nineties, when the secret archives were finally open.

http://lvin.ru/documents/gulagdebate...rn-Zemskov.pdf

Obviously the true figures were nowhere as huge as historians were guessing, which it's only logical, because had those numbers were true, the country simply wouldn't have survived during the WWII with all its losses.
But that's not to say that a lot of innocent people didn't die as the result of collectivization, exhaustive forced labor in the camps, or as the result of Stalin's paranoia regarding the possible plots against him.

As for civil casualties of the USSR during the WWII, here NJGoat puts them at 13-15 million.

Who mostly won WW2?

So I can safely assume that it's a correct estimate.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:33 PM
 
18,314 posts, read 15,376,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-tip motha View Post
It does indeed sound bad, because you're using the racial makeup of a people to explain their behavior and justify genocide.

Terrorism creates terrorism. The Chechen people and the acts they commit are the product of Russian crimes against humanity.
Right.
Except for the children they've murdered and people they've tortured in Beslan were not Russians, but the neighboring Ossetians, whose guilt consisted only in what? their lack of Islamic faith, since the majority of them accepted Christian Orthodoxy long time ago. So as I've said, if someone would have thrown these mad dogs Chechens out from the Caucasus, I wouldn't cry bitter tears. So much for "crimes against humanity."

Quote:
The primary simularity between Chechnya and the Arab countries you're referencing exists in the atrocities committed against them, which has in turn created a militant culture.
Another Muhammadan lie, spoken through the deceitful mouth of his follower.
This militant culture that it was from the very beginning, brought Islam by sword and fire to the whole region of former lands of Persia and left it with nothing but misery and poverty for centuries to come. Be that Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Central Asia or even Caucasus.
Russians may have brought a havoc upon their Western neighbors, but in the East they did nothing but good, deislamisizing these ancient lands and setting them free from this abominable religion and its practice - women first of all. And in Persia, Russia lost one of her most gifted and intelligent citizens, a writer and composer, who happened to be a diplomat at that time, while protecting the local inhabitants from craziness of Islamic Persia.

Aleksander Griboyedov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So no need to tell lies about the nature of Islam and what became of lands it conquered, BEFORE anyone there "committed atrocities" against the perpetrators.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:12 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 4,837,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-tip motha View Post
It does indeed sound bad, because you're using the racial makeup of a people to explain their behavior and justify genocide.

Terrorism creates terrorism. The Chechen people and the acts they commit are the product of Russian crimes against humanity. The primary simularity between Chechnya and the Arab countries you're referencing exists in the atrocities committed against them, which has in turn created a militant culture.
You know how it would not sound racially, erasure described the exact model of the behavior of the Chechens. As for teroristov The U.S. government has fostered them, fighting against Russia. But, I also think that there are terrorists (except mad) the rest of the work of our government with you.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Troy Hill, The Pitt
1,179 posts, read 1,426,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You know how it would not sound racially, erasure described the exact model of the behavior of the Chechens. As for teroristov The U.S. government has fostered them, fighting against Russia. But, I also think that there are terrorists (except mad) the rest of the work of our government with you.

The English is a bit broken, but if you're suggesting that the US suffers from its own blowback in a similar manner to the Russians you would indeed be correct.
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