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Old 05-03-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,861 posts, read 24,142,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinite_limit View Post
Proof otherwise here

It's your claim. You have to prove it.

Get busy.

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Old 05-05-2013, 04:10 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 5,328,017 times
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That's interesting because you are discussing Hitler and Stalin, but at least one of you knows that the mentor of anti-Semitic and racial ideology was Ford and DuPont?
That in 30 years of fascist propaganda occupied 50 percent of the United States of America?
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:07 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,513,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Re: Stalin was worse than Hitler



No he was not. Stalin and his actions were nothing new and exclusive in Russian history,

Oprichnina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

while Hitler and his racial theories were far more sinister in this respect. And it was Hitler, not Stalin who brought the death of 60 million people as the result of the WWII.

(But anyway, if you want to educate yourself on this subject, you are better off to check with the history forum)


//www.city-data.com/forum/histo...in-debate.html
tell that to the victims of the holodomor
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:16 AM
 
286 posts, read 316,604 times
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:04 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 5,328,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetroof View Post


This is another anti Russian propaganda. Of stories (if you do not know her!) Ukrainian party leadership today that the famine gripped the entire country, (not just Ukraine) with no attempt to speak, presenting the situation as if it only suffered from Ukraine, or the famine in other parts of the USSR was wearing a different nature and scale, rather than on the Ukrainian lands.

The concept of "famine" has appeared among Ukrainian emigration. In the 1940-1970-ies in the West periodically out of work in which the famine of 1932-1933 was declared a planned Kremlin leadership act aimed at the spiritual and the physical destruction of the Ukrainian people and stoivshim lives of 7, 10 or 15 million people.
OBJECTIVES

What are the objectives Ukrainian elite, persistently rising noise around long sunk into oblivion event? The concept of "famine" is intended, first, to identify the enemy (as a real and tangible and metaphysical kind of "absolute evil"), who played a fatal role in the life of Ukraine. Secondly, to introduce into the collective consciousness of Ukrainians feeling of an innocent victim. Third, convince the world that Ukrainians are just a victim. And fourth, to impart this enemy guilt and impose on him the moral and material obligations to redeem their "guilt." There is also a desire to appear "victim number one" in the world. It is no coincidence Ukrainian leaders have increasingly called hunger "Ukrainian Holocaust" (emphasizing that in its scope and implications of "Holodomor" superior to the Jewish Holocaust), and equate the Soviet Union to the Third Reich.

HUNGER

But what really happened? Was there a genocide - ethnocide Ukrainians? And in fact, in 1932-1933, the Soviet Union was a terrible famine. It was the result of the policy of collectivization - one of the main components of the "great leap" accelerated industrial and social modernization of the Soviet Union. As planned by the Bolsheviks, it was to provide the necessary resources for the industrialization and to create the conditions for the transformation of agriculture. It is possible that the establishment of collective farms and especially how their allegations were false step. However, over the decades (and especially against the avalanche of de-industrialization and de-modernization in recent years), it is clear that in this very short period laid the foundations of the huge backlog, due to which there are post-Soviet society (and, of course, Ukraine). The transformation of the USSR into a modern power was objective and logical continuation (just short of a socialist in form) modernization of Russia, which began in the last third of the XIX century and the aborted revolution, world and civil wars. This break also predestined inevitability painful for the people jerk. Unfortunately, his methods were extremely harsh, with frequent during the previous era attitude toward people as subservient to the mass.

Forced collectivization, accompanied by dispossession has resulted in the winter - in the spring of 1930 to a surge of discontent in the countryside. Passions ran high and the campaign of persecution of the church. According to the Ukrainian GPU, with dissatisfaction were purely economic reasons, and if it has acquired political overtones, it was expressed in the anti-communist and anti-Jewish rhetoric, much less getting nationalistic coloring. It was observed throughout the Soviet Union. And the most stubborn resistance was noted at the Don and Kuban, where collectivization to be completed earlier than in Ukraine.

Supporters of the concept of genocide there was no direct evidence that would prove them right. It is still not discovered documents that allow to assert the presence of the intentions and plans of extermination by famine Ukrainians themselves. Therefore, in the course (other than unfounded ideology) are the assumptions, hypotheses, and hints.

It is said that the famine was planned in order to break the "national spirit" of the Ukrainian peasantry and thereby destroy the base of the Ukrainian "liberation movement." However, the real situation in the village was not at all be what it draw adherents "famine." Even during the Civil War, not all peasants shared the idea of ​​Ukrainian nationalists and went for what then bitterly they wrote themselves, seeing in it the main cause of his defeat. And even more erroneous to assume that the peasants had a base of the Ukrainian movement to the beginning of the thirties. Another was psychology, especially the youth, and the crisis of 1930 confirmed this.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Toronto
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They were both bad guys who engaged in many of the same crimes against humanity. Isn't that enough? How do you calculate which is worse once you get past the millionth victim, second millionth victim, ten millionth victim? By that time you're just splitting hairs.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:11 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 5,328,017 times
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It is believed that the dispossession - is the know-how of the Soviet Union, only black spot in our history. However, few people know that in the fateful 1932, when the Soviet Union began the struggle against the kulaks, about the same thing happened with the farmers in the United States.
How about Based on the analysis of statistical data, Boris Borisov, in his article "Famine-up" estimated the number of victims of the financial crisis in the U.S. in more than 7 million people - and for the first time directly compared the incident to the United States in 1932-33 with starvation in the Soviet Union in 1932 -33-x.

In his article, Borisov used the official data of the American Statistical Office. After considering the population of the United States, the dynamics of births and deaths, immigration and emigration, the author comes to a disappointing conclusion: for the famine of 1932-33 dollars were missing more than 7 million lives.

"According to U.S. statistics, in the decade from 1931 to 1940, the dynamics of growth of the U.S. population does not lose many as 8,553,000 people, with growth rates of population change at once, simultaneously, in two (!) Times exactly at the turn of 1930 / '31, fall and freeze at this level for exactly ten years ... No explanation for this in the vast, hundreds of pages, the text of the report of the American US Department of commerce Ā«Statistical Abstract of the United StatesĀ» not found "- the author notes.
At the same time, considering the period of the Great Depression, the author notes a surprising similarity with what happened in the 30 years of the USSR. He even introduced to the United States, the term "defarming" as an analogue of the Soviet "dispossession." "Few people know ... about five million American farmers (about a million families) in exactly the same time, banks evicted from their lands for debt, but not backed by the U.S. government nor the land, no work, no social support, no old-age pension - nothing," - the article says.

"Every sixth American farmer hit by famine rink. People were going nowhere, deprived of their land, money, his native home, property - in the throes of mass unemployment, hunger and the rage unknown gang. "
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:20 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 5,328,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
They were both bad guys who engaged in many of the same crimes against humanity. Isn't that enough? How do you calculate which is worse once you get past the millionth victim, second millionth victim, ten millionth victim? By that time you're just splitting hairs.
Stalin is credited with many things that he not did. And today it occupies the western propaganda. Let us remember the not so distant example of such propaganda - When the U.S. government has armed and trained the Georgian militants and ordered the attack on civilians in South Ossetia. Which were later killed thousands of civilians and Russian peacekeepers. Total 200 Russian peacekeepers with small arms defended with their lives of civilians against armed Georgian militants heavy equipment, artillery and aircraft. After that all American and Georgian media have accused Russia is that Russia is attacked. needed a whole year to prove that it was a planned operation and American(Georgian military, trained by U.S. experts) forces invaded Georgia. That's the type now operate the Western media.

Last edited by GreyKarast; 05-05-2013 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
471 posts, read 921,506 times
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The Farm Depression in the US was not caused by the government, it was mostly because farmers were tilling up immense sections of native prairie mostly in order to plant wheat. During the time of rain, all thought this would work and the boom crops would still come in. The banks, which were not supported by the government prior to Roosevelt, loaned out money to willing and eager farmers who thought it was a sure bet and used their lands as security for the loans. When drought hit, everyone thought it would not last long and it would be farming as usual. But it did, and vast amounts of dry topsoil blew away and the banks were left with dusty dry land that would not grow crops or support animals. Since banks back then were funded by their depositers, and ratios of loans to deposits was not managed, the unpaid loans ate up all the cash and people could not get money out of the banks. It had nothing to do with the government. Roosevelt helped support the start of insured deposits, the FDIC, more regulated banks, as well as work programs putting people back to work and money in the economy and the early social security system.

But the farm crisis in the Soviet Union was due to a number of different issues; big agressive production goals, partly in sort to "prove" to unbelievers that the new collective farming system was best. There were distribution problems, management problems, and the removal of personal incentive from most of the population, unless you count fear of the gulags and secret police, who immoblized far more people from doing things than it encouraged them to find solutions.

Stalin did not love all sections and peoples of the USSR evenly, and I am sure there were groups he wished the farming crisis would do away with. And remember, the government now techically "owned everything"; meaning they of course could not blame themselves for having anything to do with the problem......and the rest was history. ......

Last edited by CountryCarr; 05-05-2013 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:43 PM
 
24,465 posts, read 19,585,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
You left out the part about the evil Zionist Jews running America.
No, he is from the different crowd - trust me))))
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