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Old 05-05-2013, 07:02 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
18,600 posts, read 10,906,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Actually, there are millions of legal and illegal immigrants in Russia.
Russia is in very serious trouble today.

*The average Russian man has a life expectancy of 58 years, which is among the shortest in the civilized world.

* The Russian population is down to 142 million. In 1991 it was 148 million. It is expected to decrease by 1/3 by 2050, down to 96 million.

* The birth rate in Russia (The number of children born to the average woman) remains below 2.0, which is the 'breakeven' point.

* The Russian death rate is 14.3 per 100,000. Compares to 8.5 for the USA.

There may be an occasional young woman kidnapped from Ukraine and dragged into Russia, but that would be the extent to any immigration problem.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:59 PM
 
18,995 posts, read 15,836,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryCarr View Post
Freedom is often defined differently by people based on what they experienced before. I feel that America is more free than Russia by using the following as a guideline: People are still trying to get into America, both legally and illegally, while there is not a line waiting to get into Russia......
Boxus is right; actually there are tonnes of legal and illegal immigrants waiting in line to get in Russia; from what I remember of top off my mind, Russia's figures in terms of immigration are second only to the US. It's not about political freedom ( as in majority of cases in the US in nowadays,) it's the search of a different freedom - freedom from poverty and desperation that many seek both in the US and Russia.
After the break-up of the Soviet Union, a lot of former Soviet Republics (Caucasus and Central Asia in particular) turned into typical third world Islamic counties. Tajikistan in particular, and it supplies the endless number of gastarbiters to Russia in search of jobs. Basically it's the same situation in many ways as with Mexicans in the US, but worse in many ways as well, because it breeds the racial hatred in Russians as never before, since they think it helps to keep their wages down and whatever else they believe the problem is.

Quote:
Most people in the world usually prefer to stay in the country of their birth. But back in the early 1960's, a recent era in America where discrimination was still a problem and before the civil rights laws were enacted, people were still prefering to stay here and deal with the problems...
To begin with, those who were discriminated against were Blacks, so where would they run ( and how, when the majority of them were dirt poor) where they'd feel different about the situation? They were in a position of being cornered, and so their only chance was to fight back.
Now when Russians were escaping from the country back in Soviet days, they were easily accepted abroad, in the US or European countries. Not a case any longer in post-Soviet times, purely out of economic reasons.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:22 PM
 
18,995 posts, read 15,836,153 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Russia is in very serious trouble today.

*The average Russian man has a life expectancy of 58 years, which is among the shortest in the civilized world.

* The Russian population is down to 142 million. In 1991 it was 148 million. It is expected to decrease by 1/3 by 2050, down to 96 million.

* The birth rate in Russia (The number of children born to the average woman) remains below 2.0, which is the 'breakeven' point.

* The Russian death rate is 14.3 per 100,000. Compares to 8.5 for the USA.

There may be an occasional young woman kidnapped from Ukraine and dragged into Russia, but that would be the extent to any immigration problem.
All true, particularly when it comes to birth and death rates.
Capitalism in Russia came in its most vicious and brutal form ( haven't you heard about the 90ies?); the country basically returned to its pre-revolutionary conditions in terms of the absence of safety net for the average citizen and the unlimited power of money.
Back in Soviet times women were always relying on themselves first of all, not men in terms of raising children, and the safety net provided by the Soviet government was encouraging them to have children.
With Soviet system gone and with nothing replacing the old safety net, Russian women simply refuse to have children for the most part, because they know that so many of them end up in the orphanages, taken away by "protective services."
Meaning - there is nothing there to support mothers if they get into any kind of difficulty with jobs, loss of wages, children being sick - you name it. Very few can afford having children in post-Soviet Russia, and that brings demographic collapse. That's the power of money for you. So a lot of Russians literally connect the survival of the nation with socialism, while pointing at demographic collapse that capitalism has brought to them. That's why left ideas in Russia are alive and well.
And that in turn explains why Russians are not unanimously condemning Stalin by the way.

Last edited by erasure; 05-05-2013 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:31 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 4,905,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
The only thing equal in the Soviet Union was the poverty and oppression. So while we indeed have second-class citizens, everyone in the Soviet Union were second-class citizens except for a tiny group of nomenklatura.

In the early 90s, I volunteered for a group that helped Soviet emigres adjust to life in the United States. We'd help them get a place to live and a place to work, as well as help them navigate through American society.

My favorite thing to do? Take them to a grocery store for the first thing and watch them wander the aisles. It was as if they had visited Disney World.

And if you were so equal, why did all those different ethnicities bolt away as fast as they could the minute the Soviet Union collapsed? Face it. You were nothing but an empire held together by brute force.
USSR never restrained by brute force, and almost all the republics in the Soviet Union were voluntary
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:32 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Well, the OP did not address the standards of living, the OP simply alluded that using the factors of race and nationality in regards to equality in the USA and USSR, that the USSR was more equal.
That's right, I'm talking about etoi and in this thread.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:38 PM
 
18,995 posts, read 15,836,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
USSR never restrained by brute force,
No. Never.
Never ever.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:39 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
1950's? Or 50th year of existence?



Ask today? Of course they will tell you this. Ask in 1950? Some will say eys, others would not depending on who it was.



This is true. Whether you were an Uzbek, Russian, or who ever; your status was equal. But as we saw after the USSR break up, this "equality" was made possible under the government structure, and once this government dissolved, the "equality" status of everyone dissolved as well.



Yes, and the US overcame this and continues on its path. I do not see what poor people of color today have to do with anything, they are making choices that cause their poverty, the same way a white person and any other person does that is in poverty.

I do think the USSR has been underrated in terms of its progress and equality for different ethnicities and women.
I agree with you! Yes, today, this ideology in Russia has changed, but not as much as it seems. Although today Putin himself had violated the rights of the Russian nation in Russia changed the constitution of the Russian Federation. How are you doing today in America? say that Detroit was ruined when they came to African Americans. because the whites are gone from this city. Is this true?
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,121,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You know, our multinational country as well as for you. But we have for each other was always the same friendly and equal treatment. We did not have seats for black, yellow and white. And what about the camps all across America for Native Americans (which you call the reservation) We could not get a degree from the University regardless of skin color. How is it possible to formally give a person the status of second-class citizens?
your moral relativisms are more proof that the blinding visions of utopia are lies, written in the blood of countless millions.

lets compare number of people dragged out of there houses and shot in the dead of night for no other reason they writing/speaking out against the government?
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,121,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You know, our multinational country as well as for you. But we have for each other was always the same friendly and equal treatment. We did not have seats for black, yellow and white. And what about the camps all across America for Native Americans (which you call the reservation) We could not get a degree from the University regardless of skin color. How is it possible to formally give a person the status of second-class citizens?

You are right we did commit such things, yet you did not learn a damn things and did far far far worse.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:00 AM
 
28,900 posts, read 49,081,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
USSR never restrained by brute force, and almost all the republics in the Soviet Union were voluntary
I'm sure the Baltic states would have disagreed with you in 1940. I'm just fascinated how little you know about your own country's history.
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