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Old 06-08-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Nashua
572 posts, read 1,313,696 times
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The 50th, 75th and 100th anniversary of the American Civil War were commemorated by towns, states and the Federal Govt. The 125th saw a lot in the form of TV, books and movies. We are in the middle of the 150th and my State hasn't budgeted anything for ceremonies or activities, (even though the State Capitol Bldg has a hall of CW flags) though libraries and historical societies are using the theme for their ever-present lectures.
Columbus' 500th anniversary from 1492 went by with hardly a whisper.
The educational mindset is no longer interested in "dead white men" and with the poor economy, agencies find other things to spend their money on. Don't expect the centennial of WWI to be a remembrance of heroic deeds. If at all it will be regarded as big corporations driving deluded people into war.
However, as a military historian, I do wish WWI and other important time periods got their due.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,020,108 times
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Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
I've often wondered what would have happened if Germany won WW1. The Brits would have retreated back to their island fortress protected by the English Channel. Perhaps small portions of France would have been annexed and the country would have been forced to pay reparations. Hitler would have died in obscurity and the Nazis would not have risen to power.
I suspect that there would have been an internal war in France, socialists vs nationalists, each blaming the other for the loss. It might have remained a political struggle only, and it might have erupted into A Spanish Civil War scale calamity.

If so, and the French nationalists prevailed, it might well have been them going about rounding up their Jews and making them into national scapegoats. If the socialists had prevailed, then I think that there would have been a WW II sooner rather than later as Germany was faced with socialist allies on either side, something that they would have seen as intolerable since they would have still been a monarchy. (I would assume that a victorious Germany would not be unseating the Kaiser who led them to the glorious triumph.)
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,278,476 times
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Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
The First World War was not abject stupidity but had a cruel logic all of its own that took both Great Power Blocks the Triple Entente and the Triple Axis or Central Powers into a a War no one wanted but felt that for the sake of National Honor and Pride simply had to be done. The First World War is still a possibility in our 21st Century World when we feel we must fight for the honor of our Stars and Stripes or to punsh some other nation for a real or imagined slight. The thing was started by an act of terrorism.
The catalyst which made the First World War into such a vicious and futile exercise was mercantilism; the mistaken belief that economic and military dominance are intrconnected, and that "trade follows the flag" That idea has been thoroughly debunked by the emregence of healthy economies, and their natural outgrowh of true parliamentary pluralism in much of what used to be called the Third World.

I'm sure that at this pont some of ur resident Lefties and their quasi-radical allies will raise the usual hue and cry about the dominance of multinational corporations, but the fact reamins that many of the most prominent "villains" -- Apple, Google, Amazon -- didn't exist fifty years ago, and many of the pre-eminent players of the immediate post-World War II era have fallen upon hard times; General Motors, perhaps the ultimate example of the inherent tendency toward failure of incestuous government/"Koroporate" partnership being the most easily-cited example.

Entire industries -- railroads, natural gas and in some ways, cybrernetics -- have emerged, grown, stagnated and reformed. While no industry so conspicuous as those mentioned can expect to escape public-sector oversight, it was the encouragement of innovation, and a co-operative rather than adversarial attitude between regulators and regulated, which eventually led to a finding of a way "out of the woods". The indstries just cited recovered because regulaton was reformed, rather than strengthened solely in the pursuit of power.

The men like Metternich, who put together the plan which fostered nearly a century of peace after the fall of Napolon, understood that it was the rogues -- from Marx to Hitler, and the perrenial losers who are drawn to this agitation, who posed the greatest threat to stability, which is strengthened whe more of the population has something to lose. Within that category, most of the self-proclaimed American "mavericks", from Huey Long to Lyndon Larouche, have been little more than a comic sideshow. True human progress continues, but it emerges from those who work within the system -- anyone from Ralph Nader to George Will.

The First World War, and its uglier, bloodier second act, were the single most painful demonstration of what we all hae to guard against.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:36 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,141 posts, read 13,169,015 times
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I suspect that there would have been an internal war in France, socialists vs nationalists, each blaming the other for the loss. It might have remained a political struggle only, and it might have erupted into A Spanish Civil War scale calamity.

If so, and the French nationalists prevailed, it might well have been them going about rounding up their Jews and making them into national scapegoats. If the socialists had prevailed, then I think that there would have been a WW II sooner rather than later as Germany was faced with socialist allies on either side, something that they would have seen as intolerable since they would have still been a monarchy. (I would assume that a victorious Germany would not be unseating the Kaiser who led them to the glorious triumph.)
Good points.

I suspect that regardless of whether the far Right or the far Left won in France, they both would have eventually turned toward an Alliance with the Soviet Union against Germany. The enemy of my enemy is my friend so to speak. But I think you are right, it would certainly be easier for the French left (Socialists) to ally with the Soviets and it would have been sooner rather than later.

And then the question becomes what would the British do? They would be angry at the Germans because of WW1 but could they tolerate a Communist-Socialist bloc dominating all of Europe? They may very well have to had intervene on the side of the Germans!
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,020,108 times
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Originally Posted by LINative View Post

And then the question becomes what would the British do? They would be angry at the Germans because of WW1 but could they tolerate a Communist-Socialist bloc dominating all of Europe? They may very well have to had intervene on the side of the Germans!
If the kept to their traditional approach to the continent, they would have only intervened if one of the two power blocs appeared to be gaining an advantage over the other, and then they would have intervened on behalf of the one that was losing ground. As long as the blocs canceled one another and prevented singular hegemony, Great Britain would have been satisfied.
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