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Old 07-02-2013, 10:08 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,682,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Are you saying that Longshanks was *not* a ****? And that he did *not* let Scotland slip away and gain their freedom shortly after his death?

Or are you saying that *other* parts of the movie were inaccurate, and therefore we should regard the parts that were correct, as inaccurate too?
Virtually nothing in the movie as far as timelines and character interaction goes were all that accurate. Edward I is viewed as almost the prototypical medieval king. He had an extremely succesful reign and while not loved by his people was feared and respected. He is sometimes referred to as the "Justinian of England" for his extensive legal and adminsitrative reforms. He made extensive legal reforms, beginning with the Hundred Rolls, he established Parliament as a permanent body and made extensive reforms to England's banking, tax and financial systems. His one major criticism on that end was that he expelled the Jews from England, a situation that would last for 350 years after his death.

He conquered Wales, following the Welsh Prince refusing to pay homage to him and beginning rebellion and built a series of castles, permanently adding Wales to the possessions of the English crown. He also began the legacy of giving the royal heir the title "Prince of Wales". He was influential in continental politics and prevented a major war between France and the Kingdom of Aragon by neogtiating the settlement.

When it came to Scotland, the Scots and English had a rather harmonious existence for most of the time. The Scottish King paid homage to Edward as his vassal. The situation broke down when the Scottish King Alexander III died following the death of his two sons and one daughter. His one surviving heir, Princess Margaret of Norway was to come to Scotland and marry Edward I's son. This would further cement the two kingdoms, but Scotland would retain its semi-indpendence. As it was, Margaret died on the trip and a succession crisis ensued.

This began the period known as the "Great Cause" when up to 14 claimants vied for the Scottish throne. The two front runners were John Balliol and Robert de Brus. Edward I was invited to settle the question. Instead, he offered that he should simply be recognized as the true feudal overlord of Scotland. The Scottish magnates refused, but did agree to hand over the realm to Edward I until a succession could be decided. Eventually John Balliol was named king.

Edward continued to exercise authority over the realm by hearing cases brought to him on appeal from the Scottish magnates. Eventually in one of these cases he ordered Balliol to appear before Parliament to answer charges. Balliol complied, but it was a sore point for many Scots. The Scots were eventually pushed over the edge when Edward I demanded that Scottish troops be provided to him for his war in France. The Scots refused, allied with France and invaded northern England. Edward I's response was to crush their armies, take the coronation stone, depose Balliol and install English lords to govern the country just as he had in Wales.

From there begins the Wars of Scottish Independence...

Wars of Scottish Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the time of Edward I's death in 1307 England ruled Scotland and Robert the Bruce who had crowned himself king in 1306 was in hiding. Upon Edward I's death, Robert I of Scotland began the war that would culminate in 1320 with defacto indpendence and in 1328 with recognized independence. During the entire reign of Edward I's successor Edward II Scotland was in rebellion, but still largely controlled by the English and there was constant fighting. It was not until Edward II was deposed by his wife in 1327; who along with her lover governed the realm in the name of Edward III did Scotland gain recongnized independence and Robert the Bruce was recongnized as the rightful king. Ultimately it was Edward II that lost Scotland, but that was over 13 years after the death of his father Edward I.

When it comes to the movie Braveheart, outside of the names of the people and the general setting, there is little that is historically accurate.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post

When it comes to the movie Braveheart, outside of the names of the people and the general setting, there is little that is historically accurate.
One of the more annoying aspects of the film was in its treatment of the conflict as a war for freedom. The masses of peasants always remained peasants after these medieval dust ups, all that ever changed was the identity of the aristocrats who got to exploit them. If being exploited by local lords rather than ones a bit more removed geographically was "freedom", then yeah, William Wallace was a great champion of freedom.

Hollywood always has to clean up these medieval wars to make them look like they were worth fighting.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:44 PM
 
1,034 posts, read 1,799,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cold
I think some of the worst kings, just since the Norman conquest, would have to be Edward II, Henry IV, George VI.
George VI? Really?

Ooops . I find I have been scrambling letters lately -- meant George IV, aka the Prince Regent.

I think some of the worst kings, just since the Norman conquest, would have to be Edward II, Henry IV, and Georege (see what I mean?) George IV.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lerner View Post
Mel Gibson was probably the best King of England, before being ousted by Elizabeth II's blood soaked coup.
I have heard he is ready for a remake of this movie.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:55 PM
 
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And another historic inaccuracy in Braveheart. Isabella, Edward II 12 year old bride, didn't marry Edward II till after he was crowned king. She probably never even met Edward I.

Braveheart was a good movie as far as entertainment value. History it wasn't.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:58 PM
 
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From what I've seen, George III was a very popular and beloved king in England for most of his reign. The bouts of madness meant that his son, the regent, was left in charge, which caused all the discontent.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:40 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,682,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
One of the more annoying aspects of the film was in its treatment of the conflict as a war for freedom. The masses of peasants always remained peasants after these medieval dust ups, all that ever changed was the identity of the aristocrats who got to exploit them. If being exploited by local lords rather than ones a bit more removed geographically was "freedom", then yeah, William Wallace was a great champion of freedom.

Hollywood always has to clean up these medieval wars to make them look like they were worth fighting.
Absolutely. Wallace wasn't exactly the "nice" guy they made him out to be. For instance, they show him sacking the city of York as if his raid was purely a military endeavor. In reality, Wallace's army raped and pillaged its way across Northern England. They reportedly burned and looted over 700 villages and carried their spoils back to Scotland before an English army could come and stop them. In the movie he is shown as "taking the war to the British" and you cheer when the gates of York fall. I doubt many people would be cheering when Wallace was committing the same acts against innocent English villagers that he accused the English of committing against the Scots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cold View Post
And another historic inaccuracy in Braveheart. Isabella, Edward II 12 year old bride, didn't marry Edward II till after he was crowned king. She probably never even met Edward I.

Braveheart was a good movie as far as entertainment value. History it wasn't.
It would take pages to point out all of the inaccuracies in the movie. For instance, Edward I's son, the future Edward II is shown as being weak and latently homosexual. He is also shown as being rather attached to his friend whom the king apparently doesn't know. In reality, the friend portrayed in the movie was supposed to be Piers Gaveston who was handpicked by Edward I in 1298 to be a friend, advisor and confidant for his son. When Edward II tried to push to have Gaveston given a royal earldom, Edward I had him exiled (not tossed out a window) a situation which only lasted a few months and was reversed when the king died.

Physically Edward II was similar in stature and appearance to his father. The name "Longshanks" referred to Edward I's imposing height and stature. Edward II was every bit of his father's 6'2" and was well trained in martial matters. He was an athlete and relished sport and was also a bit of an inventor and enjoyed making mechanical "contraptions". He lacked his father's drive and ambition and was more interested in entertainments and frivolity, but he wasn't shy about going on campaign; though he lacked his fathers gift for strategy.

The question of his homosexuality has long been disputed. He married early, produced four children and even had an illegitimate son. Piers Gaveston married early as well and had several children. While the two were ridiculously close, the question of their relationship having a sexual component is impossible to answer. Most historians believe that the problem people had with Edward II and Gaveston was that Gaveston enjoyed almost exclusive access to royal patronage and was second only to the king without exception. Basically, Gaveston semi-ruled the country.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:46 PM
 
519 posts, read 1,023,497 times
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Originally Posted by cmptrwlt View Post
I have heard he is ready for a remake of this movie.
Ah, that would explain a few things. He's just been Daniel Day Lewis-ing us this whole time! The Jews started the American Revolution!!
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atai J. View Post
Edward II?

Good choice. I would pick Mary I.
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:02 PM
 
Location: SW France
16,666 posts, read 17,430,851 times
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For sheer dereliction of duty I would cite Edward VIII.

What an apology of a person.
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