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Old 07-02-2013, 01:26 PM
 
Location: SGV, CA
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From the end of World War 2 until the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and to some extent even today, communism was viewed as the greatest threat to America and the values it stood for. What I would like to know is, when exactly did America's boogeyman switch from nazism/fascism to communism? As in, was there a particular moment or event when the collective American public conscience suddenly feared the Red menace? Was it Sputnik? The detonation of the Soviets' first nuclear bomb? Before WWII even ended? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:37 PM
 
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Truthfully, it never replaced fascism as the primarily antagonized ideology in the West. Fascism merely replaced it temporarily. Churchill saw Bolshevism as the primary threat to what he viewed as the British way of life pretty much up to the day that the Germans goose-stepped through Paris.

I think the more recent, and in my opinion more reasonable aversion to communism, occurred in the aftermath of the stunning, almost incomprehensible amount of dead humanity it resulted in under Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and company. I'm no rabid anti-communist, and obviously capitalism and socialism have their faults, but the fact is that the rise of communism in the 20th century was by far one of the most deadly and destructive events in the history of this species. I'm referring to communism as a societal structure that exists in the real world rather than the on-paper interpretation of those who glorify Marx and Engels' intentions, which has about as much baring on reality as The Lord of the Rings.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,186 posts, read 68,323,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red4ce View Post
...when exactly did America's boogeyman switch from nazism/fascism...?
When Hitler died.


As to communism's appeal as a focal point that began well before Hitler even came to power.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
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It had been that before the war, as early as the 1910s. Communism/socialism represented a challenge to the U.S. economic power structure, with higher costs of labor, potential strikes, slowdowns and all, and potentially leading (if it did what it said it meant to do) to outright confiscation of enormous wealth. It was only natural that great wealth would demonize anything that wanted a greater share of that wealth, much less threatened to take it all. And the threat wasn't idle--the Socialist Party had a serious presence in some Presidential elections. If big money was scared as hell, one could hardly blame them.

WWII was really more of an interlude where we took a break from Commie-hating because we had another national hate target (plus, that one had the added advantage of being able to hate a whole racial sub-group, so that soothed the American soul). After WWII, of course, we were free to resume the Commie-hating, and we leaned into that with a mighty leaning. Worked out well for two generations.

The real crisis came when the USSR fell and the Warsaw Pact came unglued, and we were stranded without a proper target for national hatred. No one could figure out who we should fear and hate, so we sort of lamely kept hating the Russian remainder of the USSR as an interim measure. We floundered for a decade, not sure what to do, until Islamic terrorism stepped up to give us our new compulsory hate target. Since that threat has pretty much gone dormant, we're now trying to decide who's next. My bet is on China.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:52 PM
 
1,037 posts, read 968,451 times
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The main idea of the communism is a dictatorship of the proletariat. The paradise of the workers.
But the capitalists was scared. I can understand them. What does it mean - communism? It is their nightmare - no private property and a total socialization.

There is no socialism or communism in Russia today. "Red Empire" had fallen.
But is US so friendly to Russia as we expected?

Russia is still a global competitor for US.
So does it matter which regimen is in Russia now - a socializm or a democracy?
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:54 PM
 
520 posts, read 921,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
The real crisis came when the USSR fell and the Warsaw Pact came unglued, and we were stranded without a proper target for national hatred. No one could figure out who we should fear and hate, so we sort of lamely kept hating the Russian remainder of the USSR as an interim measure. We floundered for a decade, not sure what to do, until Islamic terrorism stepped up to give us our new compulsory hate target. Since that threat has pretty much gone dormant, we're now trying to decide who's next. My bet is on China.
Who are you speaking for? You and your family and close friends, or just yourself? Seems like an exhausting way to view the world, you sound like Fred Phelps.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:00 PM
 
Location: SGV, CA
816 posts, read 1,651,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lerner View Post
Truthfully, it never replaced fascism as the primarily antagonized ideology in the West. Fascism merely replaced it temporarily. Churchill saw Bolshevism as the primary threat to what he viewed as the British way of life pretty much up to the day that the Germans goose-stepped through Paris.

I think the more recent, and in my opinion more reasonable aversion to communism, occurred in the aftermath of the stunning, almost incomprehensible amount of dead humanity it resulted in under Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and company. I'm no rabid anti-communist, and obviously capitalism and socialism have their faults, but the fact is that the rise of communism in the 20th century was by far one of the most deadly and destructive events in the history of this species. I'm referring to communism as a societal structure that exists in the real world rather than the on-paper interpretation of those who glorify Marx and Engels' intentions, which has about as much baring on reality as The Lord of the Rings.
Interesting point. Were the tens of millions of deaths under these regimes well known to the Western public right as they were happening, or were these events only publicized afterwards by defectors and refugees?
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,564 posts, read 12,928,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lerner View Post
Who are you speaking for? You and your family and close friends, or just yourself? Seems like an exhausting way to view the world, you sound like Fred Phelps.
If I sound like Fred Phelps to you, or you drew the inference that I myself felt any of that, you're not intelligent or perceptive enough to discuss seriously with, but you are rude and insulting enough to be insulted back in kind. I'm thinking that anyone with the faintest tad bit of perceptiveness can see that my description of our history of national enemy-designation is a sarcastic and unflattering analysis of our national need to find the Emmanuel Goldstein of the day. At no point did I suggest that I actually joined in or endorsed the hate.

Gods, the tragedy of education's downfall in this country. Every day a new foolishness to bear.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:05 PM
 
5,720 posts, read 5,777,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
...need to find the Emmanuel Goldstein of the day.

Five minutes or three?
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:06 PM
 
Location: SGV, CA
816 posts, read 1,651,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
The real crisis came when the USSR fell and the Warsaw Pact came unglued, and we were stranded without a proper target for national hatred. No one could figure out who we should fear and hate, so we sort of lamely kept hating the Russian remainder of the USSR as an interim measure. We floundered for a decade, not sure what to do, until Islamic terrorism stepped up to give us our new compulsory hate target. Since that threat has pretty much gone dormant, we're now trying to decide who's next. My bet is on China.
I'd say Benghazi and the Boston marathon bombings would indicate Islamic terrorism is still on the forefront of American minds. The discussion has simply temporarily fallen to the wayside thanks to the more recent IRS and NSA scandals.
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