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Old 07-11-2013, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
363 posts, read 488,428 times
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Japanese internment. Now, who did we learn that from?

Just read 'Budha in the Attic" recently, beautifully written. Amazing how often people, collectively, just do what they are told to do, no questions asked, no idea of what the outcome might be, they just do as they are told.... terrifying when you think about it.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:21 AM
 
14,781 posts, read 37,921,582 times
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Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
Another one that comes to mind is Stalin's purge of his top generals in 1938-1939. This move severely crippled the Red Army leadership and probably contributed to the disaster of Operation Barbarossa. Had the purges never taken place, perhaps Stalin's army would have been much more capable of defending against the Germans. Instead, millions of innocent lives were taken, women were raped, property destroyed, and total destruction on a level the world has never seen before or since.
Well, irony of ironies (lol), I have heard it argued that the purges actually helped the Red Army in the long run by clearing out stuffy and backwards generals and allowing for new ideas to be introduced. While it hurt their combat capability in the short term, it allowed them to adopt strategic ideas like forming their armor into it's own formations on the German model. Changes and acceptance of new ideas like that was a product of the younger officer corps and men like Zhukov who found themselves greatly elevated after the purges.

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Originally Posted by FLgirl727 View Post
Japanese internment. Now, who did we learn that from?
Most likely from ourselves. The United States is credited with the dubious distinction of inventing the modern concept of concentration camps. The US during the Van Buren administration used concentration camps to pacifiy the Chrokee in 1838. The Spanish then used a similar idea in Cuba in 1896-97 and the British used a similar model in South Africa during the Second Boer War in 1900. However, it would be American action during the Phillipine-American War that would set the standard for the idea of internment/concentration and incorporated all of the previous lessons. The Germans actually studied American actions in the Phillipines when designing their own concentration camps.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:01 PM
 
10,804 posts, read 10,752,144 times
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Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Well, irony of ironies (lol), I have heard it argued that the purges actually helped the Red Army in the long run by clearing out stuffy and backwards generals and allowing for new ideas to be introduced. While it hurt their combat capability in the short term, it allowed them to adopt strategic ideas like forming their armor into it's own formations on the German model. Changes and acceptance of new ideas like that was a product of the younger officer corps and men like Zhukov who found themselves greatly elevated after the purges.



Most likely from ourselves. The United States is credited with the dubious distinction of inventing the modern concept of concentration camps. The US during the Van Buren administration used concentration camps to pacifiy the Chrokee in 1838. The Spanish then used a similar idea in Cuba in 1896-97 and the British used a similar model in South Africa during the Second Boer War in 1900. However, it would be American action during the Phillipine-American War that would set the standard for the idea of internment/concentration and incorporated all of the previous lessons. The Germans actually studied American actions in the Phillipines when designing their own concentration camps.
Actually, the Germans based much off the Armenian Genocide (I 100% believe it was a genocide) including death marches and stuffing victims into storage cars and shipping them off by rail.
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Kharkiv, Ukraine
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For me irony of the WWII is desire of many countries and people to exploit the Reich. And irony that they only have lost in this ambitions.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Wadym View Post
For me irony of the WWII is desire of many countries and people to exploit the Reich. And irony that they only have lost in this ambitions.
Not sure if so many wanted to exploit the Reich as there were who cooperated out of fear. Before WW2 began, no other country in Europe besides France had an army even remotely capable of resisting the Germans. Once they defeated France, nobody dared to challenge the Germans.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:17 AM
 
1,037 posts, read 966,620 times
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Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
Not sure if so many wanted to exploit the Reich as there were who cooperated out of fear. Before WW2 began, no other country in Europe besides France had an army even remotely capable of resisting the Germans. Once they defeated France, nobody dared to challenge the Germans.
Wadym is right. Until 1940 England and France hoped that Germany would begin a war against Russia. That is the cause of the "Phoney war". When Germany had defeated Poland Allies hoped that Hitler would continue his "Drang nach Osten".
Stalin tried to manipulate Hitler too. His fear was a possibility of the war with Germany. He hoped that in 1940 in France a scenario of 1914 would occur again.
In the end, they deceived themselves.
P.S. After the defeat of Poland Hitler planned to attack Russia but then decided that his "problem" # 1 is France.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Kharkiv, Ukraine
716 posts, read 750,835 times
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Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
Not sure if so many wanted to exploit the Reich as there were who cooperated out of fear.
Not fear supervised over them. Many knew about a complex situation in which there was Germany after the WWI and tried to exploit that restrictions. Representing itself as allies with more free position - Poland has attacked Czech, Hungary attack Ukraine, USSR to Poland and Baltic, later Finland and Romania to the USSR - and all of them were in the status of allies of Germany at the moment of an attack on neighbors; all tried to snatch out at the Reich a piece of a pie from under a nose. But it was possible to the little.
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Originally Posted by Nolefan34 View Post
Before WW2 began, no other country in Europe besides France had an army even remotely capable of resisting the Germans. Once they defeated France, nobody dared to challenge the Germans.
Interesting picture:
Attached Thumbnails
What are some of the more ironic moments in WWII?-797887.jpg  
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