U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-06-2013, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 824,938 times
Reputation: 410

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
There is an older BBC series, Enemy at the Door, which follows the occupation to the end which I'd love to see. Looks like Amazon has it streaming.

Do get it. For my money EATD is much the better of the two.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-06-2013, 02:22 AM
 
Location: SW France
14,671 posts, read 14,883,607 times
Reputation: 28119
It's terribly easy for us to judge others from the comfort of our own homes, safe from occupied forces.

Frankly I don't know how I would have reacted if I had the misfortune to be put in that situation.

I have met a lady who is in her nineties and she was sent to France during WWII as a spy.

I don't know how she had the guts to do something like that.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2013, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,699,875 times
Reputation: 16871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
Not really, but some of the actions seem very spineless to me.

How about the women, that took on successions of German officer boyfriends, whilst their hubbies were out on the front?

Were they wrong?
What if they had children and the officers provided food? Would that change things? There are many variables. Other than the SS personal, later on most of the Germans were those who were older or injured as the fit to fight were sent to do that. I don't think you can call an action wrong until you see the individual reasons for taking it. In the last year, food even for the Germans was limited and I'm sure people did things they would not have done to feed themselves and their families. The Islands were in reality a backwater in the war, and even the British didn't rush to liberate them since there were more important things to do.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,811 posts, read 3,834,311 times
Reputation: 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
What if they had children and the officers provided food? Would that change things? There are many variables. Other than the SS personal, later on most of the Germans were those who were older or injured as the fit to fight were sent to do that. I don't think you can call an action wrong until you see the individual reasons for taking it. In the last year, food even for the Germans was limited and I'm sure people did things they would not have done to feed themselves and their families. The Islands were in reality a backwater in the war, and even the British didn't rush to liberate them since there were more important things to do.
Sure. Let's take collusion with the enemy "to feed the children" acceptable. Lie, cheat, steal, do whatever. Doesn't matter. I can justify Hitler's Holocaust if I had too.

The problem with people is they are SPINELESS. People always talk about "doing the right thing." "Lets make the world a better place." No, that isn't the facts. The facts are people want the good, they want everything, however they will not make sacrifices. Its great for all of the other people to make sacrifices, but I won't. YOU do it for me.

Me? I'm going to sleep with every NAZI SS solider who walks onto the island. Just so long as I can get a chocolate bar. And guess what? That is great and good. I'm doing the right thing. No, you nothing more then a coward.

If more people stood up for what was right and correct, alot of the injustices in the world would have never have taken place.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2013, 06:08 PM
 
1,474 posts, read 3,226,966 times
Reputation: 2068
Stockholm Syndrome.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2013, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 53,777,391 times
Reputation: 24697
Phil306 -

You are a "true believer" in a reality that never existed. In any war the first job of a civilian is to get enough food to feed his family and himself (frequently HIM was a woman because all the Patriotic men were serving in Malaysia or somewhere) while being a "proper patriot" is not even a consideration. Remember these civilians were almost completely unarmed with guns of any sort even before the occupation and almost certainly after.

Cooperation with the occupiers weather Dane, Norman, Viking or German is just plain common sense and a good idea if you want the kids to survive.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2013, 12:04 PM
 
14,781 posts, read 37,993,532 times
Reputation: 14476
I find it hard to judge people who were in that situation since I have never been in that situation. There were minor investigations after the war regarding collaborators. Around 12 cases were considered for review, but all were dismissed. Several cases against people who had fled to the Islands prior to the occupation to avoid military service were prosecuted. About the worst that happened was the military had to intervene to prevent attacks on women who had fraternized and were known as "Jerry-bags", though even those reprisals ended after a day or so. Even then only around 180 illegitimate births are credited to the Germans during the occupation and the number of fraternizing women was considered small. The German army was also not fond of such fraternization and opened brothels for their troops supplied with French prostitutes under military medical supervision. I imagine that the people of the Channel Islands had a bit of a silent agreement between themselves over that entire episode. Of the 50k+ people on the islands during the occupation, only 12 cases were considered for prosecution and none ever taken to trial. That is pretty staggering when you think about it.

It's also a little different of a case of occupation. The British chose to abandon the islands and no adequate plans were made for the evacuation of the civilian population. The Britsh also declared the islands "open" to spare them damage. The Bailiffs were under orders from the Crown Officials and Lt. Governors to not resist the German occupation and co-operate passively. The fear was that there was little the civilians could do to fight back and anything they did would have minimal impact on the war, but would lead to massive reprisals. Essentially the British government told the people of the Channel Islands to cooperate with the Germans in order to save themselves. Essentially the message given to the Islanders was that surviving was the patriotic duty, not futile resistance.

The occupation there was also unlike many others. The ratio was 1 German soldier for every 2 Islanders, which was staggering. There was no Gestapo presence, so that impetus for resistance didn't exist. There were no organized political parties and few trade unions, so there was little social structure to coalesce the resistance around. Most of the children had been evacuated and virtually all men of military age were already in the armed forces. The islands were basically full of women and old men. Still there was a resistance movement, but it was mainly centered around disseminating news and rescuing people who had violated "German laws".
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2013, 08:58 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
471 posts, read 822,185 times
Reputation: 747
The people of the Channel Islands did the practical thing by not starting some bloody struggle against the German forces. The Germans who were sent there were basically a regular military force that was not interested in a scorched earth policy on the islands, but rather in maintaining a peaceable occupation as per their own military orders. The residents were allowed to go about their lives in a almost normal fashion, as long as they, of course, did not start fighting against the Germans. In return, the Germans acted with restraint and military correctness as best as possible. The leader of the German force was actually a Baron with family history of military service, not some crazed SS officer.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 53,777,391 times
Reputation: 24697
They were lucky to have a professional German Officer in charge instead of a True Believer.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top