The most atrocious nations (greatest, influence, 1930s, European)

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Origin of Symmetry

You lie again. I never said 'inherently'. Barbarous features mostly depend on the environment and culture you grew and live in.

By the way he didn't lie.
Your assumption is based on limited understanding of the word "inherently," because if you look it up, one of its meanings is precisely that;

"involved in the constitution or essential character of something" which is pertaining to what you've just said - "depend on the environment and culture you grew and live in"
"Culture" is what defines in many ways "essential character" of the nation, and vice versa.

Another thing - it's downright impolite to accuse someone of "lying" on public forum. People might be mistaken or they might have misunderstanding. I don't think you wanted to be rude intentionally, so give it a bit of consideration next time pls.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by Listener2307

I'll see all you have mentioned and raise you one rebuilding of Japan.
Japan became the world's second largest economy (recently replaced by China) as the result of American largesse, and nothing else. It was Americans who lifted Japan out of the self destructive morass into which they had plunged and out of which sprang the Second World War. It was only the Americans who could have stopped the monster that was Japan from subjugating fully one half of the world. And YOU are silly enough to try to make this American feel guilty for have bombed a country who had demonstrated that that was the only way to stop them?
No. I would do it again.

It's not USA that lifted Japan, it's technological progress that allowed former adversaries to unite the global resource exploitation-consumption feast (on the expense of the lesser so called third world countries). Reminder, resource starved Germany and Japan didn't fight all those wars because they were on the path of self-destruction or they were evil and undemocratic, they were locked out of the global colonial system dominated by Britain, France and later USA.

As for WWII, it seems USA did everything possible to provoke Japan by restricting (or threatening to) restrict its access to the resources an industrial economy requires. Do I have to tell you what USA would do to Saudi Arabia if it would stop pumping oil? It's easy to guess, huh? Japan wasn't any more monstrous than any other country carving a larger piece for itself. Modern Japan makes me wonder though, it's a truly dystopian society, even more dystopian than USA.

[warren zee]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Let us never forget the atrocities against the Native Americans in the U.S.! And the slaves in the Deep South and, and, and, and, and, and, and!

Yeah I think we should focus more on ourselves. Especially in light of recent events.

[BlackShoe]

Originally Posted by Dd714

What is it about us Americans? Bring up Nanking, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, Pol Pot, the Armenian Genocide, the Golden Hoards,the destruction of Carthage, the Crusades...and someone will say "yeah but the US did this..." and here we go with Vietnam, Slavery, Native Americans, etc. Did the US build in some recessive neverending guilt gene into our chromosones?

In American leftists, yes indeed. The concept of "White Guilt", "Blame America First", "It's all our fault', etc., is hard wired into them, it is one of the many aberrations of Liberalism. On the endless topic of Vietnam, the left does conveniently omit some very basic truths, and that is the killing of Vietnamese by other Vietnamese. First the calculated brutality and slaughter by the VC and then later the NVA seems to get pushed aside. No one will ever know the exact casualty count, but some estimates say that for every Vietnamese life lost due to American action, ten or twenty more died at the hands of enemy Vietnamese, and that does not take in account the mass executions and purges after the fall of SVN.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by Dd714

To put it simple:
-"Napalming villages" in Vietnam were not common practice.

Don't spend your time on hybperbole in this forum

That's hyberbole and such exaggeration or extreme labeling does not help your debate points.

Please, how those 3,000,000 Vietnamese died then? The rules of anti-guerilla wars are the same, whether it's Nazis, Soviets or Americans. Cutting off supplies, shelter and support to guerrilla force the village civilians might provide (including under the barrel of a gun) regardless of the cost (to villagers). Don't forget even more barbarous anti-guerrilla war in Philippines circa early 1900s.

The famous photo of the youngster running from a napalm attack was done by S. Vietnamese Airforce in error of what was thought to be an enemy target. Napalming the entrenched enemy on the other hand was very effective weapon and saved American soldier's lives.

There was NO entrenched enemy in Vietnam. Spotting (or pretending to spot) a few Vietcong fighters all it took to destroy a village.

In his new book, Kill Anything That Moves: The Real American War in Vietnam, Turse argues that the intentional killing of civilians was quite common in a war that claimed 2 million civilian lives, with 5.3 million civilians wounded and 11 million refugees. And as Turse tells Fresh Air's Dave Davies, "as many as 4 million [were] exposed to toxic defoliants like Agent Orange."

a necesary evil in a terrible "total war"

In other words, the forces of good and evil used exactly the same terror strategy.

And I am not even going to dignify your remark of "and starting from 1990 until now it's just one big war crime..."

Killing (directly and indirectly) millions of people with no good reason whatsoever is no longer a war crime. Yes, it's not, since we are "winning".

[SoulJourn]

Americans were responsible for making purses out of the bodies of slain American Indian babies. Hitler read about the way we treated the American Indians and admired it.

He also got many of his ideas from us.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by SoulJourn

Americans were responsible for making purses out of the bodies of slain American Indian babies. Hitler read about the way we treated the American Indians and admired it.

He also got many of his ideas from us.

American Eugenics was "cutting edge" for its time. Eugenics was a true obsession of the American ruling class circa 1890-1940. It's not an exaggeration to say that American eugenicists inspired Hitler in many ways.

To American utopians Hitler was a pioneering hero. And Hitler in turn acknowledged his debt to them: “Hitler studied American eugenics laws… the intellectual outlines of the eugenics [he] adopted in 1924 were made in America.” The law against sex relations between Jews and Aryans followed American laws against sex relations between blacks and whites; American laws promoting involuntary sterilization found themselves adopted whole by the Nazi state. Even the Reich’s furtive attempt to rid itself of its Unfit by poison gas was an adaptation of an American model, the “lethal chamber (later adopted as the death row gas chamber).” In the end American eugenicists chose to murder the Unfit indirectly, by “some adverse feature of the environment, such as excessive cold, or bacteria, or by bodily deficiency.”

[LINative]

Originally Posted by SoulJourn

Americans were responsible for making purses out of the bodies of slain American Indian babies. Hitler read about the way we treated the American Indians and admired it.

He also got many of his ideas from us.

Originally Posted by RememberMee

American Eugenics was "cutting edge" for its time. Eugenics was a true obsession of the American ruling class circa 1890-1940. It's not an exaggeration to say that American eugenicists inspired Hitler in many ways.

To American utopians Hitler was a pioneering hero. And Hitler in turn acknowledged his debt to them: “Hitler studied American eugenics laws… the intellectual outlines of the eugenics [he] adopted in 1924 were made in America.” The law against sex relations between Jews and Aryans followed American laws against sex relations between blacks and whites; American laws promoting involuntary sterilization found themselves adopted whole by the Nazi state. Even the Reich’s furtive attempt to rid itself of its Unfit by poison gas was an adaptation of an American model, the “lethal chamber (later adopted as the death row gas chamber).” In the end American eugenicists chose to murder the Unfit indirectly, by “some adverse feature of the environment, such as excessive cold, or bacteria, or by bodily deficiency.”

Saying Americans made purses out of Indian babies (and just how many times did that happen?) and even mentioning Hitler without mentioning the crimes of Nazi Germany - talk about a serious lack of perspective.

In reality, the Germans had a long history of Aryan superiority theories and also anti-Semitism among its German intellectuals. But don't let that stop you from trying to blame the United States for Hitler's bizarre theories and prejudices.

While your at it, why don't you people blame the Americans for Stalin also? How about Napoleon? Genghis Khan? Come on, just for kicks.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by BlackShoe

In American leftists, yes indeed. The concept of "White Guilt", "Blame America First", "It's all our fault', etc., is hard wired into them, it is one of the many aberrations of Liberalism.

• Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
  
• Uncertainty avoidance
  
• Need for cognitive closure
  
• Terror management

Those are the four main reasons conservatives embrace chauvinism, nationalism, and "Deutschland Uber Alles" attitude. Even though most (lower social class) conservatives would be lucky to get back in one piece from yet another victorious war with evil doers like Grenada while their upper class brethren will be rolling in dough, as always. As we all know upper class conservatives (like Cheney) have other (than fighting) things to do. He needs the guys like you, be proud.

, the left does conveniently omit some very basic truths, and that is the killing of Vietnamese by other Vietnamese.

Isn't that what a civil war is all about? Would you like Vietnamese or anybody else fighting in the next American Civil war? Since according to your creed, foreign intervention = less?? dead bodies.

First the calculated brutality and slaughter by the VC and then later the NVA seems to get pushed aside. No one will ever know the exact casualty count, but some estimates say that for every Vietnamese life lost due to American action, ten or twenty more died at the hands of enemy Vietnamese, and that does not take in account the mass executions and purges after the fall of SVN.

With the imaginative ratios like that it's a miracle that any Vietnamese survived. You forgot about contributions of the puppet South Vietnamese forces, just make up a few ratios for them too.

[warren zee]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

American Eugenics was "cutting edge" for its time. Eugenics was a true obsession of the American ruling class circa 1890-1940. It's not an exaggeration to say that American eugenicists inspired Hitler in many ways.

To American utopians Hitler was a pioneering hero. And Hitler in turn acknowledged his debt to them: “Hitler studied American eugenics laws… the intellectual outlines of the eugenics [he] adopted in 1924 were made in America.” The law against sex relations between Jews and Aryans followed American laws against sex relations between blacks and whites; American laws promoting involuntary sterilization found themselves adopted whole by the Nazi state. Even the Reich’s furtive attempt to rid itself of its Unfit by poison gas was an adaptation of an American model, the “lethal chamber (later adopted as the death row gas chamber).” In the end American eugenicists chose to murder the Unfit indirectly, by “some adverse feature of the environment, such as excessive cold, or bacteria, or by bodily deficiency.”

Awesome post! Can't rep you yet but I owe you one.