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Old 08-06-2013, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,240,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F S View Post
I agree with djmilf. There is no actual proof that Harding was black at all. Until that is a PROVEN fact, this speculation is incorrect.
He would be under the "one drop rule".
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,240,851 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
My only point in all of this is that, if you are from a family that immigrated here early, and settled in the southeast when that area was still frontier, it's entirely possible that you have black ancestry, but without DNA testing, in most cases, it's impossible to prove or disprove based on records alone.
Should we exhume President Harding?
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,240,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Harding has become the answer to the trivia question, "Who is the worst President of all time?" And it is not going away.
Oh, Harrier doesn't know about that.

After 1/20/17 - President Harding will have some competition.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:01 AM
 
10,726 posts, read 10,366,510 times
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Quote:
Linky didn't work. No matter.

Your post is pretty typical of what we read of Harding. It's hard to find much good, and that history is chiseled in granite, it seems.
But it really doesn't make much sense.

Harding isn't given credit for the rise in employment because the U.S. was coming out of a depression? Doesn't make any sense to me. Obviously, he led the financial recovery.

The agriculture sector remained weak. So?

Real wages didn't rise.....During the 20s there was no inflation at all. Zero. Wages didn't rise, that's true. Neither did costs.

Expansion of consumer credit? What? Mortgages weren't even invented until the 1930's. There was no such thing as a credit card. There was no expansion of consumer credit.

There are so many opinions as to the cause of the Great Depression, that no matter what you or I say, the other could find a ready counter-argument.


One thing is certain; Harding sure picked some Lulus when he picked a cabinet.

Your comments are typical, though. As far as I know all this is just more media spin and picking of favorites. Every good student "knows" that Harding was one of the worst, if not THE worst President ever. I even heard the narrator in that old series, "Centennial" say so. But he didn't say why.

P.S. I got the link to work.
Its pretty clear, Listener, from other things you've said that you have some pretty unorthodox views of history. I've not surprised you choose to defend Warren Harding.

Harding was the arch-type of a "care-taker" President. The real reason he was nominated by the GOP was probably because certain factions wanted someone in office who would do as he was told and not cause problems.

Here are a couple of statements that the historian, Robert Dallek, attributes to Harding:

1. I wish all those economists would put all their ideas into a book, so that I could read it and I would know what to do as President. But, aw shucks, I wouldn't be able to read a book like that anyway.

2. We need to return to normalcy. (the word is normality, but Harding kept using it and coined it as a phrase for his election in 1920)

Dallek made the comment that Harding's speeches were so bad that you search them endlessly for an idea or central theme and never find one. The truth is that Harding's background to become President was very scant. He had been a publisher of a newspaper in Marion, Ohio and than gotten interested in politics. He engineered his election to the US Senate at a time when state legislatures picked U.S. Senators and when the Senate was referred to as the "millionaires club" because many people simply bribed state legislatures to get this job. When Harding is spoken of sometimes people talk about the "Warren Harding Syndrome". This is a way of referring to someone who looks like a President (tall, handsome, with a good speaking voice). Yet, intellectually is not capable of understanding the complexities of the job.

You describe the improvement in the economy that took place during Harding's Administration. The policies of budget cutting could hardly be claimed to responsible for this. Its a virtual impossibility. The real reasons for the economic recovery in the Twenties had nothing to do with Harding or his Administration. The explanation probably lies in the fact that the this period was a time when huge scientific and technological progress was made. This was the era when radio was not only discovered, but commercial radio broadcasting began and the networks were formed. Numerous electrical appliances were designed and mass marketed. A huge electrical grid began to form across the country, except in rural areas. The mass production of the automobile created a situation where most of the country was on wheels by 1929, when the stock market crash occurred. This plus expansion of consumer credit allowed the masses to purchase much of what was produced.

Unless one wants to give Harding credit for this economy which seems unrelated to anything he did one would be hard pressed to credit much of anything else about it. The posts above (including mine) mention Secretary of the Interior Albert Fall and the Tea Pot Dome Scandal. What's left out of this are other administration figures like Attorney General Harry Daugherty. Daugherty just barely escaped being convicted of criminal charges after Coolidge forced him to resign when he took office. Daugherty and some of his cohorts are considered responsible for widespread corruption inside the Veteran's Administration. There was no equivalent of a "Woodward and Bernstein" in 1920. What we know occurred with Fall and Daugherty was simply the tip of a huge rotting pyramid of corruption in Washington.

On a personal level, its hard to know for sure. Harding may have conducted as many as three extra-marital affairs. Of course, modern politicians have had affairs, so he can only be faulted accordingly.

I noticed you "blew off" the charges that Harding did nothing to stop the depression in the agricultural sector of the economy. At the time, farmers represented slightly over 20% of the population. So, by doing that Harding was essentially "writing off" 20% of the population as being unworthy of any assistance. This was a far cry from a few years before during World War I, when farmers were seen as heroes who were not only feeding Americans, but helping to feed our English allies and those abroad. Funny, how quickly today's "important people" are summarily written off, once they have served their purpose.

I will say though that as bad as Harding was he was not our worst President. He was only in office a little more than two years and there is only so much damage any one person can do in that period of time. The label of very worst President would more fittingly fall on men like James Buchanan and Franklin Pierce who essentially laid the groundwork for the Civil War by doing nothing in the face of secessionist threats from the South.

Last edited by markg91359; 08-06-2013 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:07 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
17,737 posts, read 10,447,240 times
Reputation: 24704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Oh, Harrier doesn't know about that.

After 1/20/17 - President Harding will have some competition.

Could be. Just could be.
But those who excoriate Harding never mention the first Johnson, or Franklin Pierce, or Millard Filmore, or Buchanan and even LBJ. I don't understand why, but a myth cannot be stopped with a fact. And we are taught the myths at a very young age.
'Great Presidents' have been selected for us. And then there was that one 'very bad' one.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,240,851 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
When Harding is spoken of sometimes people talk about the "Warren Harding Syndrome". This is a way of referring to someone who looks like a President (tall, handsome, with a good speaking voice). Yet, intellectually is not capable of understanding the complexities of the job.
Describes President Obama to a tee.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,851,880 times
Reputation: 13779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post

Could be. Just could be.
But those who excoriate Harding never mention the first Johnson, or Franklin Pierce, or Millard Filmore, or Buchanan and even LBJ. I don't understand why, but a myth cannot be stopped with a fact. And we are taught the myths at a very young age.
'Great Presidents' have been selected for us. And then there was that one 'very bad' one.
Excuse me but I did mention Fillmore and Buchanan.

The various professional historians who consistently named Harding as a lousy POTUS in repeated polls over 65 years were not basing their votes on myths they learned in elementary school. Their life's work was American history and politics. They were pretty familiar with the facts of Harding's presidency.

Furthermore, just because other POTUS were also lousy doesn't make Harding any less lousy, and Harding being lousy doesn't make Filmore or Andrew Johnson better. They stand on their own merit, or in the case of crappy POTUS, their own lack of same.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:53 PM
 
10,726 posts, read 10,366,510 times
Reputation: 34429
Quote:
President Obama to a tee.
Did you miss the subject line of this thread?
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,570 posts, read 11,373,870 times
Reputation: 9352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Should we exhume President Harding?
There must be a few drops of DNA in a tooth? Is there such a thing as Negroid DNA? I don't know. I guess you have to to into the genetic bank of any African nation that sold slaves and do a cross check....I think it would be great to knock Obama off his ebony throne and put the guy in his place-- That he was not the FIRST.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,240,851 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Did you miss the subject line of this thread?
No.

We are discussing a mediocre president after all, so what is wrong with mentioning similar mediocre presidents for comparison?

Is there a rule that states that the Warren Harding Syndrome can only apply to President Harding?
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