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Old 08-07-2013, 06:36 AM
 
28,900 posts, read 48,714,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
By using the bomb we showed that we were no better than the enemy.
Besides Japan had been trying to surrender, it was well known that Japan could only carry on the war effort for at most several months, they were beaten.
That is a ridiculous statement. The Japanese overtures were equivalent to the Nazis offering a ceasefire as long as Hitler, Himmler and Goering would be allowed to remain in place. We stated Unconditional Surrender as our requirements and the Japanese didn't pay attention.

More to the point. Why is the dropping of two atomic bombs any less moral than firebombing entire cities or, as in the case of the Rape of Nanking, killing 200,000 Chinese one at a time with bayonets and bullets? I've yet to hear a convincing moral construct for that argument.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:38 AM
 
28,900 posts, read 48,714,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
Not sure where you get your info from oh that's right Fox News
"Even without the atomic bombing attacks," concluded the United States Strategic Bombing Survey of 1946, "air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion."
A similar study made the same conclusion about Germany. Yet more thorough surveys after the way showed that strategic bombing simply did not have the desired effect. It took foot soldiers on the ground to vanquish Nazi Germany.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,391 posts, read 4,386,921 times
Reputation: 2674
I have a complete report on the day's events at my blog linked below, not to be confused with my picture site.

Photo By Ted | The Activist's Corner
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,240,851 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
You're version of the truth is propaganda, and not at all accurate, either historically or morally.

The reality is, the Japanese were trying to surrender for several months, working though diplomatic channels in Russia to the US. Their only request was to allow the Emperor to remain as a figure head, to ease the psychological impact on the Japanese population ... which was in the US best interests to do anyway, and subsequently that is what was allowed after the surrender was accepted. But these earlier attempts to surrender were rejected.

Of course, none of this was included in the sanitized version of history taught to us in school. The US and England were always the good guys, and never did anything wrong, while the enemy was always the ruthless evil doers, as if that should be some big surprise. The winners always write the history books, and always to their favor.

But you don't have to take my word for any of this ... just consider the words of people who were there .. military leaders at that point in time, like Admiral Leahy who was Truman's top military advisor, who wrote in his memoirs the following statement:

“It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons. My own feeling is that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages.”

Then we have General Eisenhower who visited with Truman a couple of weeks before the bombings, urging him not to do it ..... who later said in an interview with News Week: “It wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing . . . to use the atomic bomb, to kill and terrorize civilians, without even attempting negotiations was a double crime.”

These are the words from a couple of our top military men at that time ... the voices of reason, amongst the war mongers like the psychopath Gen Lemay, whose fire bombing of Tokyo and other cities is estimated to have killed as many as 500,000 civilians and left 5 million homeless, who much later during the cold war was a staunch advocate of attacking the Soviet Union with first strike nuclear weapons, claiming that the US could win a nuclear war with the USSR, suffering no more that 20 or 30 Million US civilian casualties. Just 30 million Americans! The good general was willing to sacrifice 30 Million of us, and estimated 200 Million Russian civilians.

Of course we are taught to revere these soulless devils as war heros, rather than the genocidal murdering psychopaths that they really were.
Harrier can't take seriously somebody who thinks that the Boston Marathon bombings were staged.

//www.city-data.com/forum/29249091-post6482.html

Work on your ethos.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
33,051 posts, read 20,183,535 times
Reputation: 19833
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
That is a ridiculous statement. The Japanese overtures were equivalent to the Nazis offering a ceasefire as long as Hitler, Himmler and Goering would be allowed to remain in place. We stated Unconditional Surrender as our requirements and the Japanese didn't pay attention.

More to the point. Why is the dropping of two atomic bombs any less moral than firebombing entire cities or, as in the case of the Rape of Nanking, killing 200,000 Chinese one at a time with bayonets and bullets? I've yet to hear a convincing moral construct for that argument.

That's different. It was OK for the Japanese to kill somewhere between 7 and 16 million Chinese civilians. They aren't the United States, and therefore can do no wrong.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:00 AM
 
9,397 posts, read 6,006,220 times
Reputation: 4027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Harrier can't take seriously somebody who thinks that the Boston Marathon bombings were staged.

//www.city-data.com/forum/29249091-post6482.html

Work on your ethos.
Anyone who refers to themselves in the third person cannot be taken seriously. It's a sign of a person who suffers delusions of grandiose superiority that has no basis in reality. And, those who choose diversion over addressing the facts they have no reasonable response for, expose themselves as knowing that they have just been thoroughly defeated in the argument. Your unconditional surrender will be accepted.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: london,England
60 posts, read 65,485 times
Reputation: 79
The "BOMB" saved lives because had operation's DOWNFALL and OLYMPIC gone ahead it would have been a disaster,i read somewhere that America expected 1 million casualties ,but if anyone got away with" murder" it was the japanese,even the Nazis were sickened by what they witnessed in Nanking unfortunatly the Japanese and the Germans got exactly what they deserved,and it is interesting that neithier of these country's has been involved in war since........on a related topic as i'am writting this the song Enola gay by OMD is on the radio
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:18 AM
 
9,397 posts, read 6,006,220 times
Reputation: 4027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
That's different. It was OK for the Japanese to kill somewhere between 7 and 16 million Chinese civilians. They aren't the United States, and therefore can do no wrong.

This is at best a spurious argument, since one act of genocide cannot justify or excuse another ... to those of reason and morality, that is. Whether or not the Japanese Government, or the Nazis for that matter, were war criminals has no bearing on what the United States did in unnecessarily using atomic weapons on civilians. Furthermore, just as the American people have no control over what the District of Criminals did then or are still doing today, civilians generally have little to no control over wars engaged in by their governments, be they Japanese, German, Italian, British or US civilians. All of them are subject to the propaganda spoon fed them about what evil the enemy is, and what good guys they are. Case in point, the Japanese military and civilians were convinced through propaganda that US Marines would chop up Japanese babies and eat them, which is why they were so willing to fight to the death, because to surrender would result in atrocity far worse than death.

Sadly, even after all of these years, and the information that is available today that wasn't available to us then, there are still those of you who parrot this 75 year old propaganda, while justifying the mass murder of civilians using the most horrific of weapons ever invented.

Soullessness is obviously not a new affliction ... nor have we apparently found a cure for it.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,173 posts, read 1,114,702 times
Reputation: 1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Nothing decent about wanton, unnecessary murder of millions of people, regardless of the "excuses" used to justify it.
oh so now the US MURDERED millions of people?
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,240,851 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Anyone who refers to themselves in the third person cannot be taken seriously. It's a sign of a person who suffers delusions of grandiose superiority that has no basis in reality. And, those who choose diversion over addressing the facts they have no reasonable response for, expose themselves as knowing that they have just been thoroughly defeated in the argument. Your unconditional surrender will be accepted.
Using ad hominem attacks is a fallacy - you are just full of illogicality.

When you can present a coherent and rational argument that is also on topic, let Harrier know.
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