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Old 08-07-2013, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,173 posts, read 1,114,702 times
Reputation: 1306

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
This is at best a spurious argument, since one act of genocide cannot justify or excuse another ... to those of reason and morality, that is. Whether or not the Japanese Government, or the Nazis for that matter, were war criminals has no bearing on what the United States did in unnecessarily using atomic weapons on civilians. Furthermore, just as the American people have no control over what the District of Criminals did then or are still doing today, civilians generally have little to no control over wars engaged in by their governments, be they Japanese, German, Italian, British or US civilians. All of them are subject to the propaganda spoon fed them about what evil the enemy is, and what good guys they are. Case in point, the Japanese military and civilians were convinced through propaganda that US Marines would chop up Japanese babies and eat them, which is why they were so willing to fight to the death, because to surrender would result in atrocity far worse than death.

Sadly, even after all of these years, and the information that is available today that wasn't available to us then, there are still those of you who parrot this 75 year old propaganda, while justifying the mass murder of civilians using the most horrific of weapons ever invented.

Soullessness is obviously not a new affliction ... nor have we apparently found a cure for it.
Yes you are right the japanese were never going to surrender. So 500,000 japanese dead or 3 million people dead including americans, which would you choose.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,151 posts, read 20,239,890 times
Reputation: 9640
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
They already were beaten badly! and were trying to surrender, what part of that do you not understand?
That is absolutely false. There was significant infighting within the Japanese empire about how to proceed with the war. While some elements were open to surrender, they were the minority and not taken seriously by the government at large. To act as if that was an "attempted" surrender of the empire is sheer lunacy.

Quote:
"Even without the atomic bombing attacks," concluded the United States Strategic Bombing Survey of 1946, "air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion."
And you do realize that these conclusions were reached after the investigations which included many interviews with surviving members of the Japanese hierarchy, all information that was not available until after the war, right?

And frankly, I question their conclusions, for many reasons that have been well outlined here by me and many others.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,151 posts, read 20,239,890 times
Reputation: 9640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Harrier can't take seriously somebody who thinks that the Boston Marathon bombings were staged.

//www.city-data.com/forum/29249091-post6482.html

Work on your ethos.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with you, but I am. GuyNTexas is literally the stupidest poster on this entire forum, and yet ridiculously arrogant and self assured at the same time. If anything though, one must admire his resiliency. I've watched people like Jaymax and Suzy Q absolutely stomp his ass up one side of this forum and down the other, and yet he still clings to his long demolished and insane viewpoints.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Virginia
59 posts, read 153,921 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
By using the bomb we showed that we were no better than the enemy.
Besides Japan had been trying to surrender, it was well known that Japan could only carry on the war effort for at most several months, they were beaten.
Ted, if you had researched this more thoroughly, you would have known that IJA officers had no intention of surrendering. After the twin nuke bombing, they had in place conspiracy to kidnap Emperor so that he would not be able to make the surrender announcement, which was halted at the last moment. So... even after two nukes, IJA still was not ready to call it quits. Without Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing, war would have dragged on until Tokyo was occupied and IJA completely destroyed as fighting force.

Without bombings, war would have lasted no more than another 6-8 month, but it would have cost at least 100,000 dead and another 300,000 wounded based on casualty sustained by the Allied forces during invasion of Normandy (I find 500,000 dead a bit unrealistic). 400,000 casualties, and that's just on Allied side. You can probably double that for the IJA, and then add several hundred thousand more civillian casualties.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,391 posts, read 4,386,921 times
Reputation: 2674
Even our military leaders were against dropping the Bomb
Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Big Historical Lie - disinformation
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:08 PM
 
9,397 posts, read 6,006,220 times
Reputation: 4027
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinSonic View Post
oh so now the US MURDERED millions of people?
Murdered ... killed ... whatever adjective you prefer ... yes .. Millions. How many people do you think died in WW II anyway? In Japan, under the command of Gen. Curtis Lemay, 67 Japanese cities were firebombed using napalm and white phosphorus and other incendiaries, estimated to have resulted on 40-60% total devastation of those cities and populations ... and that was before the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and the immediate vaporization of those people, and subsequent deaths of hundreds of thousands in the following days, weeks and months from burns, radiation poisoning ... not to mention the countless cancers and leukemias and birth defects that continued to occur for decades due to genetic mutations from radiation damage and ongoing environmental radiation exposures.

You do realize that nuclear weapons don't just kill people during the explosion, but devastates the environment, and those that live there for generations ... right?

And perhaps you might want to read up on the firebombing of Dresden which killed an estimated 135,000 civilians in 1945, even though the Germans were at that point, totally defeated and collapsing. The city of Dresden was a cultural treasure, and not a site for war production or military significance. Those 135,000 were civilians.

Now, if we were to start tabulating all of the deaths from all of the wars of the 20th century ... WW II ... Viet Nam, Korea, Balkans, various regional conflicts that you never hear about ... Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc. ... the numbers of civilian deaths start to add up to some pretty staggering numbers. And it's not necessarily just death from direct military acts, but the deaths later resulting from disease due to sanctions and infrastructure damage that destroys hospitals, water purification, sewage, and electrical energy generation (lack of refrigeration, sewage problems and lack of potable water can lead to massive deaths, no bullets or bombs needed).

You just don't understand what you're dealing with .... war is not a video game, son.

The UN estimates were around 1 Million Iraqi civilian deaths from just the US sponsored sanctions after the first gulf war, and before the 2nd one. Another 1/2 to 1 Million after 10 years of warfare there to date.

We have several Million vietnamese and Cambodians who died in the Viet Nam war ..... got your calculator out yet?
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:16 PM
 
9,397 posts, read 6,006,220 times
Reputation: 4027
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkyj1976 View Post
Ted, if you had researched this more thoroughly, you would have known that IJA officers had no intention of surrendering. After the twin nuke bombing, they had in place conspiracy to kidnap Emperor so that he would not be able to make the surrender announcement, which was halted at the last moment. So... even after two nukes, IJA still was not ready to call it quits. Without Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing, war would have dragged on until Tokyo was occupied and IJA completely destroyed as fighting force.

Without bombings, war would have lasted no more than another 6-8 month, but it would have cost at least 100,000 dead and another 300,000 wounded based on casualty sustained by the Allied forces during invasion of Normandy (I find 500,000 dead a bit unrealistic). 400,000 casualties, and that's just on Allied side. You can probably double that for the IJA, and then add several hundred thousand more civillian casualties.
You know ... just ignoring the statements made by such men as General Eisenhower and General Leahy who contend that NO STRATEGIC military advantage was gained by the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and proceeding to parrot the long ago exposed false propaganda, doesn't make you appear very intelligent. It identifies you as a person with eyes closed, fingers in your ears, singing la la la la la la.

But I suppose Eisenhower was a propagandist for the Japanese? Is that what you are insinuating when ignoring his statements?
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
33,051 posts, read 20,183,535 times
Reputation: 19833
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
You know ... just ignoring the statements made by such men as General Eisenhower and General Leahy who contend that NO STRATEGIC military advantage was gained by the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and proceeding to parrot the long ago exposed false propaganda, doesn't make you appear very intelligent. It identifies you as a person with eyes closed, fingers in your ears, singing la la la la la la.

But I suppose Eisenhower was a propagandist for the Japanese? Is that what you are insinuating when ignoring his statements?
If it saved just one (American) life, it was worth it.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:37 PM
 
9,397 posts, read 6,006,220 times
Reputation: 4027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
I can't believe I'm agreeing with you, but I am. GuyNTexas is literally the stupidest poster on this entire forum, and yet ridiculously arrogant and self assured at the same time. If anything though, one must admire his resiliency. I've watched people like Jaymax and Suzy Q absolutely stomp his ass up one side of this forum and down the other, and yet he still clings to his long demolished and insane viewpoints.
Unlike the two you mentioned who regularly run to mods to get threads closed because of the regular arse stomping I do to their endless distortions and falsehoods, I don't call on such help when some wanker engages in personal attacks, such as you there .. Mr. Chocolate Milk. I don't need such assistance.

Therefore .... I'll be your huckleberry ... if you've got the chops to actually debate a point, rather than spew nonsense about what others do ..... let's let you put on your big boy pants and have a crack at the "stupidest" poster on the board ... you should have no problems, right? You should be able to actually challenge a point of fact ... but if you could, you probably already would have, rather than post this content-less, point-less, personal attack.

Weak stick ... very weak stick.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:41 PM
 
9,397 posts, read 6,006,220 times
Reputation: 4027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
If it saved just one (American) life, it was worth it.
But it didn't you see .... the truth is, there were American Navy Pilots being held at Hiroshima prison camp who were also incinerated in the atomic attack. So, perhaps you'd wish to rephrase that to say ... that the 500,000 Japanese deaths and the dozen or so American prisoners of war were worth it to save one American life.
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