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Old 08-10-2013, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
11,261 posts, read 14,024,751 times
Reputation: 13480

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Tarnak Farm incident

Quote:
F-16 pilots Major William Umbach and his wingman Major Harry Schmidt were returning to their base after a 10-hour night patrol. While flying at 23,000 feet (7,000 m), they reported surface-to-air fire. The fire was actually from a Canadian Forces anti-tank and machine-gun exercise, which was taking place on a former Taliban firing range.
Major Schmidt's testimony at his Article 32 hearing was that he believed his flight leade, Major William Umbach, was under attack. The radio logs show that Major Schmidt requested permission from flight control (AWACS) to fire his 20 mm cannons at what he said to be an anti-aircraft or Multiple Launch Rocket System below.
He received the response: "stand by" and less than two minutes later "hold fire." Four seconds after the hold fire order, He said he was "rolling in, in self defense." He dropped a laser-guided bomb thirty-five seconds later. Schmidt then said "I hope I did the right thing." Minutes later, the AWACS responded with "Friendlies, Kandahar."

........

Here is an excerpt from the letter of reprimand given to Schmidt:
"You acted shamefully on 17 April 2002 over Tarnak Farms, Afghanistan, exhibiting arrogance and a lack of flight discipline. When your flight lead warned you to "make sure it's not friendlies" and the Airborne Warning and Control System aircraft controller directed you to "stand by" and later to "hold fire," you should have marked the location with your targeting pod. Thereafter, if you believed, as you stated, you and your leader were threatened, you should have taken a series of evasive actions and remained at a safe distance to await further instructions from AWACS. Instead, you closed on the target and blatantly disobeyed the direction to "hold fire." Your failure to follow that order is inexcusable. I do not believe you acted in defense of Major Umbach or yourself. Your actions indicate that you used your self-defense declaration as a pretext to strike a target, which you rashly decided was an enemy firing position, and about which you had exhausted your patience in waiting for clearance from the Combined Air Operations Center to engage. You used the inherent right of self-defense as an excuse to wage your own war."
In April 2006, Schmidt sued the USAF, saying that the military violated the federal Privacy Act by disclosing parts of his military record without his permission and by doing so ruined his reputation. On September 22, 2007, U.S. District Judge Jeanne Scott ruled against Schmidt, stating, "The release of Schmidt's reprimand gave the public ... insight into the way in which the United States government was holding its pilot accountable. Thus considering all of the circumstances, the disclosures at issue were clearly warranted.


Tarnak Farm incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Houston, texas
15,149 posts, read 11,654,988 times
Reputation: 11387
Most of the civilians who died in the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor were killed by American antiaircraft shells. “There was so much excitement and confusion,” harbor worker John Garcia told Studs Turkel for The Good War, his oral history of World War II. “Some of our sailors were shooting five-inch guns at the Japanese planes. You just cannot down a plane with a five-inch shell. They were landing in Honolulu, the unexploded naval shells. They have a ten-mile range. They hurt and killed a lot of people in the city.”

Garcia spent three days at the base dealing with the aftermath of the attack. When he returned to Honolulu, “they told me that a shell had hit the house of my girl. We had been going together for, oh, about three years. Her house was a few blocks from my place. At the time, they said it was a Japanese bomb. Later we learned it was an American shell. She was killed. She was preparing for church at the time.”
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,317 posts, read 20,247,862 times
Reputation: 20737
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupson1 View Post
Most of the civilians who died in the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor were killed by American antiaircraft shells.
I don't think that is right. If you saw the film "Pearl Harbor" you would know that the Japanese diverted 75% of their air power to pursuing and trying to kill Ben Affleck and Josh Hartnett, a chase which ranged all over the island and went through urban areas as well. Since all of the ammunition expended by the Japanese pilots missed Affleck and Hartnett, it had to be going somewhere and that somewhere was on the civilians below, causing those casualties others are trying to blame on returning anti aircraft shells.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
11,261 posts, read 14,024,751 times
Reputation: 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I don't think that is right. If you saw the film "Pearl Harbor" you would know that the Japanese diverted 75% of their air power to pursuing and trying to kill Ben Affleck and Josh Hartnett, a chase which ranged all over the island and went through urban areas as well. Since all of the ammunition expended by the Japanese pilots missed Affleck and Hartnett, it had to be going somewhere and that somewhere was on the civilians below, causing those casualties others are trying to blame on returning anti aircraft shells.
Makes sense to me.
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Houston, texas
15,149 posts, read 11,654,988 times
Reputation: 11387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I don't think that is right. If you saw the film "Pearl Harbor" you would know that the Japanese diverted 75% of their air power to pursuing and trying to kill Ben Affleck and Josh Hartnett, a chase which ranged all over the island and went through urban areas as well. Since all of the ammunition expended by the Japanese pilots missed Affleck and Hartnett, it had to be going somewhere and that somewhere was on the civilians below, causing those casualties others are trying to blame on returning anti aircraft shells.
Lighten up a bit Grandstander. I'm old school. The only things I know about Pearl Harbor I got from Here to Eternity.
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