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Old 08-09-2013, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Africans were totally and utterly complicit. I mean, it's not as if the slave trade suddenly sprang up the day Vasco de Gama rounded the coastline of Mauritania.

Slavery was a fact in Africa as soon as people realized they could get across the Sahara, use the Nile as a highway or build boats with sails for tacking to go up and down the East African coast. Slaving goes back as far as the time Homo Sapiens came out of Africa. Where where you find African genotypes in Europe, the Middle East, and especially North Africa you fing former and not so former slaves.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,106 posts, read 5,355,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Africans were totally and utterly complicit. I mean, it's not as if the slave trade suddenly sprang up the day Vasco de Gama rounded the coastline of Mauritania.

Europeans were not likely to want to spend a lot of time in SubSaharan Africa because Malaria was quite lethal to a people who didn't have a lot of it at home. So local middlemen were an essential part of this business. One of the reasons Europeans didn't carve up Africa until the late 19th Century (Note the Portuguese sailed past Africa in the 15th Century) was Europeans didn't find that a bark tea from the Amazon called quinine provided protection and even better in large does could cure you if you got Malaria,
In the 1850s European chemists (Britiah actually) learned how to sythesize the quinine molecule so the race for African real estate was on and Europeans and an America named Stanley mapped the interior.
This wasn't wide spread knowledge until the after 1800. That was when Europeans in Brazil and Peru started paying attention to folk medicine practices . This and another neat pain killer and stimulant called Coca or its extract called cocaine.
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,678,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
Slavery was a fact in Africa as soon as people realized they could get across the Sahara, use the Nile as a highway or build boats with sails for tacking to go up and down the East African coast. Slaving goes back as far as the time Homo Sapiens came out of Africa. Where where you find African genotypes in Europe, the Middle East, and especially North Africa you fing former and not so former slaves.
Slavery was also common in pre Roman Europe, and a necessity of the Roman system as well. In early medieval europe, along with the developement of serfdom, which is a version of it with slightly better PR, slaves were held. The arab traders helped a good portion of those on the crusades dissapear into it as well.

If we like it or not, in some form it started with human history and should our whole shiny world collapse into rubble, someone will find a use for the survivors the ones with food and guns can intice or catch.

In the medieval period, many voluntarily bowed their head because it meant food for their family and much the same work and all they had to give up was the small slice of freedom allowed them. It was better than starving.
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,678,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
Europeans were not likely to want to spend a lot of time in SubSaharan Africa because Malaria was quite lethal to a people who didn't have a lot of it at home. So local middlemen were an essential part of this business. One of the reasons Europeans didn't carve up Africa until the late 19th Century (Note the Portuguese sailed past Africa in the 15th Century) was Europeans didn't find that a bark tea from the Amazon called quinine provided protection and even better in large does could cure you if you got Malaria,
In the 1850s European chemists (Britiah actually) learned how to sythesize the quinine molecule so the race for African real estate was on and Europeans and an America named Stanley mapped the interior.
This wasn't wide spread knowledge until the after 1800. That was when Europeans in Brazil and Peru started paying attention to folk medicine practices . This and another neat pain killer and stimulant called Coca or its extract called cocaine.
Quinine also made liveable areas of Africa which were virtually uninhabited because of maleria, where native tribes knew not to go. It extended the average lifespan of children because those especially succeptable often didn't live to grow up. It is interesting that the first modern research lab was set up under the sponsership of Victoria and Albert to study and learn to treat not only maleria but other jungle diseases. The methodology which they adopted became the standard for research so in defeating maleria they also laid the basis for modern medical research using statistical measures.

Every event has both a positive and a negative in its reality.
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:39 PM
 
10,960 posts, read 11,088,640 times
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The time period that these scholars are talking about also coincides with the discovery of the trade winds. This must have had an enormous impact on anything traded along the Atlantic. The first shipment of slaves to the New World was only about twelve slaves at Jamestown. Being that Slavery was a 5000 year old practice globally I can’t imagine that there were moral implications until the industrial age began and slave owning became an indulgence rather than an economic necessity. It really isn’t fair for scholars today to look backwards into history and assume that the buying and selling of slaves had the same moral implications like it would today. Perhaps that’s why they believe African traders had to be coerced beyond their will to trade slaves. Too often I hear someone say they were selling their own kind into slavery. People enslaved their enemies, and I suspect for over 5000 years used them for currency or trade goods.
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:10 PM
 
6,937 posts, read 9,642,477 times
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Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post

It really isn’t fair for scholars today to look backwards into history and assume that the buying and selling of slaves had the same moral implications like it would today. Perhaps that’s why they believe African traders had to be coerced beyond their will to trade slaves.

Too often I hear someone say they were selling their own kind into slavery. People enslaved their enemies, and I suspect for over 5000 years used them for currency or trade goods.
Maybe there were some instances during the slave trading era where some kings or tribal chiefs did feel pressured into going out and capturing some slaves or else be enslaved themselves. The question is how common was that kind of scenario during the 300 year slave trading period?

As far as Africans enslaving their own people. I guess many people aren't thinking of Africans as being diverse like they see Europeans. African tribes didn't view other Africans as their own people no more than French and Norwegians view themselves as the same people just because both are European.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Here.
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Some were forced to participate by black Africans who freely chose to participate.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,331,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
Slavery was also common in pre Roman Europe, and a necessity of the Roman system as well. In early medieval europe, along with the developement of serfdom, which is a version of it with slightly better PR, slaves were held. The arab traders helped a good portion of those on the crusades dissapear into it as well.

If we like it or not, in some form it started with human history and should our whole shiny world collapse into rubble, someone will find a use for the survivors the ones with food and guns can intice or catch.

In the medieval period, many voluntarily bowed their head because it meant food for their family and much the same work and all they had to give up was the small slice of freedom allowed them. It was better than starving.
Please read this so you can be careful how you use the term "Serf."
Feudalism - The F-Word - The Problem with Feudalism

Most of what you've learned is wrong, so it's important to break down the myths. Many peasants owned property and they often sued knights for property violations.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:47 PM
 
Location: El Sereno, Los Angeles, CA
733 posts, read 797,870 times
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I read somewhere that although the african slave trade was going strong for centuries once the colonial powers started plundering resources from the Americas it destroyed the African gold markets and trade networks, and the only commodity they had left to sell were their slaves
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,678,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlaneloli View Post
I read somewhere that although the african slave trade was going strong for centuries once the colonial powers started plundering resources from the Americas it destroyed the African gold markets and trade networks, and the only commodity they had left to sell were their slaves
The Arab trade in slaves and anything else tradeable began centuries before the Europeans became involved, and it never ended, just extended its reach by working with Europeans. The Arabs had been taking slaves from Africa in trades with locals offering up their own long before European countries became consumers and merchants.

Back when the Vikings also traded in slaves, they traded with the Arabs. Europe was entirely wrapped up in its own miseries then and largely contributed to the trade through the crusades as they sent new merchandise.
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