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Old 03-26-2010, 02:04 PM
 
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I see this thread runs since 07 read some not all, but in New England there was French and Native influence as well.

One of my favorite words is Yankee, or Yankees, which is French and Native word butchery for English.

More or less from the very early 1500's perhaps earlier the Fench were in contact with Natives. The earliest known French wreck being off Kittery Maine, more or less proven to founder in 1502, and amber flint can still be found on the beraches there to this day, and not from careenings..(cleaning a vessels bottom on purpose)

There is 1,001 ways to spell yanquise, depending on who said it. The Spanish and Scots treat r's is a different but similar mannor, and in the Boston area r's are nearly gone from many words that contain them like pahkas. In Rrochester NY that r' is harsh, as is a', like Aahpple.

Just my 2 cents..

Funny crossing the USa on a bike, in Nebraska the locals there took me for a English man by the New Hamshire accenct I am said to 'ave. Just over the line in western Maine the folks there all talk different than on my side of the line as well.

Once in SC usa, A sherriff tawked to me for 45 minutes and I couldn't understand one word he said...

Capt William Clark, said a man was considered un-educated unless he could spell any given word 15 different ways. In some of his personal accounts of the Expedition, on the same pages, he does spell many same words in different ways.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
There is an old saw that goes that Americans and the English are two nationalities seperated by a common language One of the quirks of the two variations of english is the british habit of adding u's to words like armour for armor.
Found in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc. as well.

It's not done in the USA due to Noah Webster's language reforms.

BTW, the reason why English in the Antipodes and SA is closer to British English than American and Canadian English are has to do with the later settlement of those colonies.

Quote:
Interestingly, the reverse has occured inside the US. Until say 1960 there were many dialects in the US of which southern english was the best known, but not unique by any means.
The New York accent was at least as well known. African-American English also, but that is a spinoff of Southern English (although in the NYC area it has taken on many characteristics of New York Vernacular, not to mention that many African-Americans don't speak African American English as their native accent).

There were (and still are to some extent) many different varieties of southern English. Even the NYC accent had more variety before 1960 - e.g. it's no longer possible to tell what borough someone is from due to their accent. The
old Bronx accent, however, still survives as the North Jersey "Sopranos" accent - it migrated across the Hudson due to white flight. (The areas of the Bronx which retain large white populations have become subsumed in the general NYC accent.)

Quote:
Since then the language has become less differentiated, I believe because of television primarily.
TV did it (although some disappeared earlier - earlier in the thread I mentioned the disappearance of the old Southern California accent and the old Northern California accent being the direct ancestor of the later "California accent" that films and TV spread)
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:25 PM
 
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A fasinating post majoun. I had no idea there were variations of the (US) southern dialect despite living there most of my life. Interestingly, there is nothing in any "English" country like the French Academy - a body to regulate the formal language (not that they have suceeded, slang has crept into it as well). I suppose some might consider Oxford English official in England, but its really just the language of the aristocracy and upper crust.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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I was told that the area of Virginia, near Danville, is closest to the King's English as you can get in the southern part of the U.S.

I live in Pittsburgh now (I'm from Danville, Va) and the dialect here is quite different. It took me many years to understand the "language"! I've been told it's a mix of Scottish, Polish and English. I still don't speak it myself (I like my southern accent, thank you!) and I'm still learning after 20 years of being here what exactly it all means.


PITTSBURGHESE .com
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:48 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
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Well the quick and easy answer is that most of the Europeans who have settled here within the last 200 years aren't English themselves. I think the largest European group here are actually German Americans, followed by the Irish. Things are so mixed up now that it's impossible to tell who is what and how much.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
A fasinating post majoun. I had no idea there were variations of the (US) southern dialect despite living there most of my life. Interestingly, there is nothing in any "English" country like the French Academy - a body to regulate the formal language (not that they have suceeded, slang has crept into it as well). I suppose some might consider Oxford English official in England, but its really just the language of the aristocracy and upper crust.
I can distinguish between different variations of the southern dialect despite not having been born in 1960 and not being a southerner.

You are correct there is no equivalent of the Academie Francaise or the Real Academia Espanola in any English speaking country. The spelling differences in the US are the result of Noah Webster's linguistic reforms, but those were never made official - they were spread due to the growth of educational institutions along with the growth of the country.

Recieved Pronunciation (or Oxford English, or BBC English) is only spoken by a small minority of Britons. It is increasingly influenced by the Estuary English of London and the Home Counties, which could be described as somewhere between RP and Cockney. The Caribbean-influenced "Jafaican" accent is becoming more common in certain London neighborhoods, and not only amongst blacks or even other ethnic minorities but amongst whites who grow up in those areas. (Think Sacha Baron Cohen's "Ali G" character).
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:47 PM
 
Location: 5 years in Southern Maryland, USA
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[quote=Southlander;2049513]There are different Southern accents...coastal accents are MUCH different from Southern Highlands accents (there you have the influence of the Scots

Yes- and it's my observation that many younger people are giving up the Southern coastal accents which their parents have (non-rhotic / "R" becomes a schwa) in favor of Southern Inland accents (where "R" is pronounced, and the long "I" is drawn out). It's my theory that this is due to the influence of commercial country-music singers who all have the "Southern Inland" accent as standard.
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
There is an old saw that goes that Americans and the English.
So is the term saw in your sentence a misprint or is that cockney?
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:40 AM
 
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Faw pretty much equalf Fayinf. Trvft me on that. Not a typo anywhere either..
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:37 PM
 
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Do an accent test online. Pa has no discernible accent as do its surrounding states to a lesser extent. I imagine this is largely due to the great number of germans and others( french/alsace lutherns, swedes, irish, welsh and english that comprised its population. As well as being in the middle of the colonies.
I'm told there are big differences between french canadians and true french in language.
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