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Old 10-26-2013, 08:41 AM
 
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Have others noticed this when reading Wikipedia, books, and articles about Nazi war criminals? For example, a sentence of 20 years is actually 6 years because of release due to poor health and the guys lives another 20 years. No other information is provided behind this. It seems suspicious to me. Has anyone have info as to why this occurred with so many war criminals?

Last edited by jobseeker2013; 10-26-2013 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Brings to mind that line from "Godfather Part Two" where Michael says of Hyman Roth...."He's been dying from the same heart attack for twenty years."
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Here.
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Maybe you could provide examples. I know of a guy (Johann Breyer) that was merely a teenage guard at a concentration camp, and they've been going after him like as if he was Hitler's right-hand man. Seems pretty stupid to me. Might as well go after every soldier that ever served.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:44 AM
 
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Wilhelm List sentenced to life imprisonment in 1948, released in 1952 for poor health. Lives to 1971. There were a few more examples during hostage trial. A lot of prison guards and einsantzgruppen sentenced in 1940's to long sentences were released in the 1950s because of amnesty and commutation. Look up all the different trials after the war, read the initial sentence, and then the actual sentence.
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
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Oh we had a similar case with convicted bomber of the Lockerbie disaster Megrahi.. who was released from prison in Glasgow as doctors had stated he had only weeks to months to live.. nonsense , and should never have been released and allowed back to his own country.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Maybe you could provide examples. I know of a guy (Johann Breyer) that was merely a teenage guard at a concentration camp, and they've been going after him like as if he was Hitler's right-hand man. Seems pretty stupid to me. Might as well go after every soldier that ever served.
I applaud the the efforts to get old prison guards, but it makes me sad when I read stories of war criminals getting reduced sentences.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobseeker2013 View Post
Have others noticed this when reading Wikipedia, books, and articles about Nazi war criminals? For example, a sentence of 20 years is actually 6 years because of release due to poor health and the guys lives another 20 years. No other information is provided behind this. It seems suspicious to me. Has anyone have info as to why this occurred with so many war criminals?

What if the prison develops a health condition that requires expensive treatment? Once you are a prisoner, the state is responsible for paying for your healthcare. Maybe they were doing the taxpayers a favor by releasing them and letting them pay for their own treatment or die at home.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:15 AM
 
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The last one was shipped off to Germany in a wheel chair to be put into a nursing home because he could not stand trial for medical reasons. WWII was over when?
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:00 PM
 
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The answer lies in the formation of the West German state in the late 40's and early 50's. Konrad Adenauer led the formation and reconstruction of West Germany. He was a staunch supporter of the western allies, particularly France and the United States, and used that position to build an effective West Germany. However, Adenauer had to walk a fine line between supporting the desires of the people of Germany and those of the west.

For the most part West Germany was a conservative leaning state. It was made even moreso when millions of refugees from Eastern German territory fled west. Fully 16% of the voters in West Germany were these refugees and they were staunch conservatives and anti-communists. In order to appeal to them and the general German populace to keep himself in power Adenauer had to find a way to satisfy the peoples wants without upsetting the western allies.

The first move Adenauer made was to declare that Germany's borders were officially claimed as those Germany occupied in 1937. This meant that East Germany was "occupied" by the Soviet Union and Poland in their view. This move was hugely popular among people in West Germany who at the time still desired reunification.

The second move came when Adenauer opposed any further de-nazification efforts. When the Korean War broke out the US and Britain had heavy demands placed on them for fighting in Korea. They both decided that a reformed Bundeswehr and a fully functioning West German state would be an integral part of the security of Western Europe. Adenauer's price for that was to rollback de-nazification.

From the perspective of the average German, among whom a large number were still conservative and supported Adenauers conservative Christian Democrat Party (especially that 16% refugee grouo), many of those barred from office and even many imprisoned for war crimes were actually heroes of Germany who had fought for and served their fellow Germans.

So, Adenauer secured the end of de-nazification. First, all shipments of accused war criminals to Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union were stopped. All restrictions on those who had been former Nazi's were lifted and granted amnesty. All together over 760,000 people received amnesty under the program. The next step in the effort was to secure the end of war crimes trials by the Allies in their zone, particulalry in the US area at Landsberg. Anyone awaiting trial was released and charges dropped. Of those who had been convicted and sentenced to a prison term, they were all generally commuted and ultimatley released after only a fraction of the original time was served. Those that had been sentenced to death often had their sentences commuted to life in prison. The only ones the US refused were those labelled the "worst of the worst". Those were forced to live out their full sentences or were executed as planned.

All of these actions solidified support for Adenauer among the German people. In exchange, Adenauer delivered the Allies a fully functional West Germany in record time complete with a professional military. This would have been impossible had former Nazi's been banned from serving in the government and military. Adenauer also pioneered a movement towards collective versus individual guilt for Germany. It was Adenauer who established German relations with Israel and setup formal reparations and accpeted guilt for the crimes on behalf of the German people.

So, that is why so many convicted war criminals never served out anything approaching their full sentences. The military needs of the Korean War combined with the Cold War threat of the Soviets meant that the Allies needed a functioning West Germany. In order to get it they needed a strong leader, Adenauer who had the support of the German people. They gave Adenauer what he needed to gain the support, he gave the Allies a strong and functional West Germany.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:07 PM
 
570 posts, read 791,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
The answer lies in the formation of the West German state in the late 40's and early 50's. Konrad Adenauer led the formation and reconstruction of West Germany. He was a staunch supporter of the western allies, particularly France and the United States, and used that position to build an effective West Germany. However, Adenauer had to walk a fine line between supporting the desires of the people of Germany and those of the west.

For the most part West Germany was a conservative leaning state. It was made even moreso when millions of refugees from Eastern German territory fled west. Fully 16% of the voters in West Germany were these refugees and they were staunch conservatives and anti-communists. In order to appeal to them and the general German populace to keep himself in power Adenauer had to find a way to satisfy the peoples wants without upsetting the western allies.

The first move Adenauer made was to declare that Germany's borders were officially claimed as those Germany occupied in 1937. This meant that East Germany was "occupied" by the Soviet Union and Poland in their view. This move was hugely popular among people in West Germany who at the time still desired reunification.

The second move came when Adenauer opposed any further de-nazification efforts. When the Korean War broke out the US and Britain had heavy demands placed on them for fighting in Korea. They both decided that a reformed Bundeswehr and a fully functioning West German state would be an integral part of the security of Western Europe. Adenauer's price for that was to rollback de-nazification.

From the perspective of the average German, among whom a large number were still conservative and supported Adenauers conservative Christian Democrat Party (especially that 16% refugee grouo), many of those barred from office and even many imprisoned for war crimes were actually heroes of Germany who had fought for and served their fellow Germans.

So, Adenauer secured the end of de-nazification. First, all shipments of accused war criminals to Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union were stopped. All restrictions on those who had been former Nazi's were lifted and granted amnesty. All together over 760,000 people received amnesty under the program. The next step in the effort was to secure the end of war crimes trials by the Allies in their zone, particulalry in the US area at Landsberg. Anyone awaiting trial was released and charges dropped. Of those who had been convicted and sentenced to a prison term, they were all generally commuted and ultimatley released after only a fraction of the original time was served. Those that had been sentenced to death often had their sentences commuted to life in prison. The only ones the US refused were those labelled the "worst of the worst". Those were forced to live out their full sentences or were executed as planned.

All of these actions solidified support for Adenauer among the German people. In exchange, Adenauer delivered the Allies a fully functional West Germany in record time complete with a professional military. This would have been impossible had former Nazi's been banned from serving in the government and military. Adenauer also pioneered a movement towards collective versus individual guilt for Germany. It was Adenauer who established German relations with Israel and setup formal reparations and accpeted guilt for the crimes on behalf of the German people.

So, that is why so many convicted war criminals never served out anything approaching their full sentences. The military needs of the Korean War combined with the Cold War threat of the Soviets meant that the Allies needed a functioning West Germany. In order to get it they needed a strong leader, Adenauer who had the support of the German people. They gave Adenauer what he needed to gain the support, he gave the Allies a strong and functional West Germany.
Thanks for the info. Politics and it is outrageous to me. I believe the Holocaust was an unique crime in history. That is too bad denazification happened. Sickening
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