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Old 11-08-2013, 01:46 PM
 
14,781 posts, read 37,970,298 times
Reputation: 14476

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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
What makes this forum worth reading is the analysis or interpretation that goes with those facts. The poster I responded to did not offer any interpretation, and I've found over time that those who do that often do so because their interpretation would be rather controversial and easily countered.

Feel free to disagree but I find absolutely no value to only stating "Nazi officials generally had a very high IQ". What's the point? Does that imply extermination of the Jews was a smart policy? Does that imply IQ does not mean anything at all? Or something else?
The poster in question has been posting a lot on WW2 topics and I never got the impression that they were coming at the topic from a questionable direction or with an alternate purpose. I agree that a one-liner remark without additional analysis or interpretation is less than ideal. However, I just wanted to basically point out that I didn't think there was an ulterior motive to the post other than stating a fact that some may not be aware of.

As for the implication, I think it implies that the men who carried out these acts and formed the nucleus of the Nazi elite were not "fools" as many perhaps think they were. I think the fact that many of them were so intelligent actually makes them and the horror they unleashed even scarier and even more of a cautionary tale. In the particular case of Goering and this thread, I think it implies that Goering was certainly smart enough to "play to his audience" and "tell them what they wanted to hear".
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:07 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 87,729,894 times
Reputation: 18137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Everything that I've read about Goring has lead me to the opinion that he was just a gangster who saw a great way to become as rich and powerful as he could. I would think that so-called white supremacist gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood would idolize Goring more than Hitler since they have so much in common.
Yep the guy thought he was another Ceasar and great leader but it was shown otherwise. His thefts showed he was more like Al Capone than anything else.He was typical of the top leadership Hitler put in place.Many soldiers who had contact with him said he was a con and tried to portray himself as just a common soldier which only a fool looking a his history would believe.Cons are often liked by the people they con.
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:44 PM
 
2,665 posts, read 4,267,559 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
The poster in question has been posting a lot on WW2 topics and I never got the impression that they were coming at the topic from a questionable direction or with an alternate purpose. I agree that a one-liner remark without additional analysis or interpretation is less than ideal. However, I just wanted to basically point out that I didn't think there was an ulterior motive to the post other than stating a fact that some may not be aware of.

As for the implication, I think it implies that the men who carried out these acts and formed the nucleus of the Nazi elite were not "fools" as many perhaps think they were. I think the fact that many of them were so intelligent actually makes them and the horror they unleashed even scarier and even more of a cautionary tale. In the particular case of Goering and this thread, I think it implies that Goering was certainly smart enough to "play to his audience" and "tell them what they wanted to hear".
Re: 1st paragraph -- I think "less than ideal" is an euphemism, but fair enough. His previous post did have some substance that I should have replied to instead.

Re: 2nd paragraph -- I agree with your interpretation.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:05 AM
 
545 posts, read 738,144 times
Reputation: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
I see your true colors are starting to show

I met to say Goring had a clever way of speaking and twisting things. He puts things into a simpler context. I can see how this one quote can offend someone. However, if you read this article and many other interviews with Goring, he speaks simplistically, straight to the point, about complex matters without putting emotion into it. He does not go off on tangents.

Last edited by jobseeker2013; 11-09-2013 at 06:38 AM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
471 posts, read 821,587 times
Reputation: 747
It would be interesting to discuss what may have happened if Goering had succeeded Hitler early on; if Hitler had died in, lets say 1939 instead of 1945. Goering got into a lot of bad and lazy habits under Hitler but if he was put into the position of Der Fuehrer early on, he may have snapped out of it and brought the war to an early and different end. His WW1 experience and reputation was very different that Hitler's and Goering would have been an entirely different person for the Allies to negotiate with.

And of course, I'm not suggesting that he was a good person at all, but the original dream of the "1000 year Reich" was not his and I can't help but to think he may have thought all that nonsense was nonsensical, though he couldn't say anything (and live). Unfortunately for him, he got very comfortable with supporting whatever party line there was at any given time and taking advantage of opportunities that came his way because of it....ending up in a cell at Nuremburg..
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,691,811 times
Reputation: 16866
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
What makes this forum worth reading is the analysis or interpretation that goes with those facts. The poster I responded to did not offer any interpretation, and I've found over time that those who do that often do so because their interpretation would be rather controversial and easily countered.

Feel free to disagree but I find absolutely no value to only stating "Nazi officials generally had a very high IQ". What's the point? Does that imply extermination of the Jews was a smart policy? Does that imply IQ does not mean anything at all? Or something else?
Some serial killers also have a high IQ. It doesn't stop them from being serial killers. I don't know if they were or were not men of high IQ, but IQ is not really about moral values. I would think someone with the analitical abilty of one with high IQ would have been able to look at the overall situation for Germany and cut past the parts which were mostly ego. But the ultimate choice was Hitler's and he was hardly in that catagory. I remember an interview with someone who worked in the main office, and how it was a contest to see who got to Hitler first to propose their ideas, since it was the best chance for them being accepted.
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