Some additional facts about the JFK Assassination (country, USA, government)
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Disbelief in the Warren Commission does not mean we automatically default to any particular conspiracy theory. I posted previously in this thread, 200 years ago or whenever it was, that the common characteristic of the conspiracy theories is that they are all missing this: "Therefore, the real killer of JFK was....." Or "The people who hired the real killer of JFK were...."
The only specific culprit offered up was Clay Shaw by Jim Garrison, and it took the jury one hour to return a not guilty verdict. Garrison's reward was to to get portrayed by an earnest Kevin Costner in an Oliver Stone flick.
Right. We have no answer and probably never will. We have a lot of trashy made up "evidence" that's either intentionally done to deflect or the person really thought they saw or heard something, and we have some pretty sound evidence that's been dug up by serious researchers.
Most people who have done their reading and/or research would seem to agree, based upon evidence and motives, that the CIA used the Mafia to produce the results. That's a very general statement and doesn't even name names.
there are so many bizarre connects that's its almost as if it was "all in the family"
jack ruby's 1947 testimony with Nixon of all people..jack ruby's visit to Trafficant in Cuban jail.
supposedly even "two" lee Harvey Oswald's..i believe tax returns that are still classified showing fbi/cia payments
Oswald handler blew his brains out before having to testify before the house assassinations committee..his handler was old white Russian money who knew Jacky Kennedy family..
and nobody yet has mentioned that the JFK assassination has TWO separate government investigations coming to the conclusion of 1) lone nut..2) probable conspiracy
and nobody yet has mentioned that the JFK assassination has TWO separate government investigations coming to the conclusion of 1) lone nut..2) probable conspiracy
You are referring to the US House Select Committee investigation on Assassination (HSCA) in 1976.
They concluded that Oswald killed JFK but that a 4th shot from another location was fired and thus concluding conspiracy, while at the same time concluding that the Mafia, Castro, CIA, FBI, etc. were not involved. Besides the fact that the committees conclusion was very confusing and illogical, we can thoroughly dismiss any conclusion that this study came up with since it was entirely reliant on dicatabelt evidence that they believe captured the sound of the shots fired. That dictabelt evidence has since then been completely discredited by modern accoustic analysis. The dictabelt wasn't even operating at the time of the JFK shooting. Garbage in, garbage out. Take away the dictabelt, and the conclusions actually agree with Warren Commission.
So continue to ponder on, I'm amused that there are so many theories that conflict with each other, but don't even waste your time with the HSCA.
You are referring to the US House Select Committee investigation on Assassination (HSCA) in 1976.
They concluded that Oswald killed JFK but that a 4th shot from another location was fired and thus concluding conspiracy, while at the same time concluding that the Mafia, Castro, CIA, FBI, etc. were not involved. Besides the fact that the committees conclusion was very confusing and illogical, we can thoroughly dismiss any conclusion that this study came up with since it was entirely reliant on dicatabelt evidence that they believe captured the sound of the shots fired. That dictabelt evidence has since then been completely discredited by modern accoustic analysis. The dictabelt wasn't even operating at the time of the JFK shooting. Garbage in, garbage out. Take away the dictabelt, and the conclusions actually agree with Warren Commission.
So continue to ponder on, I'm amused that there are so many theories that conflict with each other, but don't even waste your time with the HSCA.
i remember the big story about the motorcycle policeman's audio being stuck, and THAT audio evidence has been discredited since i agree...once again ALL alternate theory people almost seem to miss the point..it doesn't really mattered who pulled the physical trigger...JFK seemingly had more enemies than you could shake a stick at..what i gained from my research was learning of the interconnections of the underworld and the over world..the Clay Shaw trial was mentioned...just an innocent bystander?
Clay Shaw worked for the OSS during WW2 and he dealt with the V2 rocket people Werner Von Braun in particular..the world of espionage is very small around JFK lol...many many witnesses were excluded from the Warren Commission..and the only valid excuse for the Warren report was the fear of WW3 unless a tidy outcome was produced and i can see that motive being used and given to hush any nay sayers at the time..THAT was the appeal to Patriotism
i remember the big story about the motorcycle policeman's audio being stuck, and THAT audio evidence has been discredited since i agree...once again ALL alternate theory people almost seem to miss the point..it doesn't really mattered who pulled the physical trigger...JFK seemingly had more enemies than you could shake a stick at..what i gained from my research was learning of the interconnections of the underworld and the over world..the Clay Shaw trial was mentioned...just an innocent bystander?
Clay Shaw worked for the OSS during WW2 and he dealt with the V2 rocket people Werner Von Braun in particular..the world of espionage is very small around JFK lol...many many witnesses were excluded from the Warren Commission..and the only valid excuse for the Warren report was the fear of WW3 unless a tidy outcome was produced and i can see that motive being used and given to hush any nay sayers at the time..THAT was the appeal to Patriotism
He certainly did make a lot of enemies and he was reckless enough to step on a lot of toes not seeming to care about the consequences. He alienated the CIA by firing their director, alienated the mafia who had helped him to get elected in the first place, by going after them, he didn't nuke communist Cuba, so the Cuban exiles felt betrayed, the chiefs of staff didn't like him because he wasn't a war mongerer.
I don't think it matters who actually killed him. What matters was who was behind it--a lot of people who didn't like him and they got together and got rid of him. People can't believe that the CIA would work with the mafia. It is hard to believe at first, I used to think that was crazy, but as you say, "the underworld and the overworld." There's a lot about our government that we don't know about, it seems.
I can't remember off hand who Clay Shaw was, but will research that.
Yes, the Warren report wanted to just wrap it up and put it to bed. But when you look at the big picture, you see too many unexplained murders and "suicides" and too many people who didn't get killed off who remember things and got a chance to at least write about it. And it's obvious that Oswald worked for the CIA. I remember reading that he said that when he ran out of the building, someone was supposed to pick him up in a car and take him to the airport but no one was there. He couldn't believe it and then he got really scared and started to walk...anywhere. He must have realized then that he had been used. No one cared about him.
Right. We have no answer and probably never will. We have a lot of trashy made up "evidence" that's either intentionally done to deflect or the person really thought they saw or heard something, and we have some pretty sound evidence that's been dug up by serious researchers.
Most people who have done their reading and/or research would seem to agree, based upon evidence and motives, that the CIA used the Mafia to produce the results. That's a very general statement and doesn't even name names.
One of the things that has come out in the investigation that has been conducted since JFK's assassination is the absence of any evidence that would connect organized crime to the assassination. The FBI conducted many wiretaps on suspected organized crime figures in the 1960's. Tapes exist of those wiretaps. In many tapes, organized crime figures can be heard describing--in blood curdling terms--murders committed by the mafia. However, not in a single tape can an organized crime figure be heard discussing his involvement in the JFK assassination.
Actually, there is a rule generally followed by mafia bosses. That rule is that politicians and public figures are "off limits" when it comes to a hit or a murder. The idea is that such a murder might bring the wrath of God down on the mafia. Americans wouldn't tolerate this if it happened. There would be an out and out war on organized crime if any such thing was even suspected. Organized crime has flourished in the past because it understood certain nuances. You don't do certain things. You deal drugs to a ghetto population. You go with the flow. You don't murder politicians, you pay them off. You don't get involved in criminal activity that is particularly offensive to the public.
I note in our discussion here that no one has moved beyond pure speculation. I have yet to hear any evidence of "who really killed Kennedy".
Frank Sturgis of Watergate fame is shown in civilian civil airpatrol pictures along with Dave ferrie and lee Harvey...Sturgis was involved with the bay of pigs thing....Nixon i believe was nominally involved with the Cia/cuba hit squads as part of vice presidential business...Nixon constantly talked about "that whole bay of pigs thing"...
because we cant specifically pin point a "conspiracy" was Nixon just being his paranoid self to ask the Watergate people to look for any evidence the democrats had connecting Nixon to JFK
one theory says we had a team of assassins who went rogue and bobby knew about the team and had involvement in it to the point bobby could not claim innocence in the death of his own brother
but after years of reading my favorite theory says the secret service ACCIDENTALLY killed him with an AR-15 discharged from a follow up car from a falling ss man..there are pictures and the witnesses excluded from the warren report that smelled ground level gunpowder...including connaly
Frank Sturgis of Watergate fame is shown in civilian civil airpatrol pictures along with Dave ferrie and lee Harvey...Sturgis was involved with the bay of pigs thing....Nixon i believe was nominally involved with the Cia/cuba hit squads as part of vice presidential business...Nixon constantly talked about "that whole bay of pigs thing"...
because we cant specifically pin point a "conspiracy" was Nixon just being his paranoid self to ask the Watergate people to look for any evidence the democrats had connecting Nixon to JFK
one theory says we had a team of assassins who went rogue and bobby knew about the team and had involvement in it to the point bobby could not claim innocence in the death of his own brother
but after years of reading my favorite theory says the secret service ACCIDENTALLY killed him with an AR-15 discharged from a follow up car from a falling ss man..there are pictures and the witnesses excluded from the warren report that smelled ground level gunpowder...including connaly
That theory has been thoroughly debunked.
If the earlier Hickey lawsuit wasn’t enough to dissuade the news media from treating this creaky story seriously, one only had to do a little research to find out that nine Secret Service agents were within a few feet of Hickey and all testified before the Warren Commission or gave statements about the day’s event and yet not one of them said they saw or heard Hickey’s AR-15 fired that day.
In fact, JFK's friend and aide, Dave Powers was riding in a car nearby and said that if a gun had gone off 1-2 feet away from him, he would have heard it.
I don't want to argue the same topic for the upteenth time but once again you are relying on bad information that keeps on being repeated again, and again, and again. It's really tired arguing the same point so I will argue this and let it go:
1.) The Carcano is not a "crap rifle". HOW DO I KNOW? I own one, same model. It's accurate and the cycling of the bolt is smooth as butter. It's still being used in combat in fact in conflicts in Algeria and Syria. The shots have been successfully repeated with the same model rifle numerous times.
2.) Oswald was a marine, and was qualified as marksman. Not the highest qualification (which explains why he totally missed the target on one shot), but regardless, in comparison to a non-marine, he was highly qualified. Besides that, it was an easy shot. HOW DO I KNOW? I visited the snipers perch in Dallas some years back and saw his viewpoint and was frankly surprised in how close a shot it was.
PLEASE don't respond with the typical blog sights and youtube videos by conspiracy theorists that start on this topic, which has been covered many times in the forum and certainly in this thread. Do you own a carcano? Have you been to the Texas School Depository? If not then you are not qualified to answer.
Many years ago on a business trip I visited Dealy Plaza and spent an hour or two walking every square inch I could short of being in the building.
I was shocked when I realized that this was not a real hard shot as the distances involved were way shorter than I expected from the massive tv coverage of the event. And being a pretty good shot myself with a bit of luck I might have pulled it off!
That is the most enduring knowledge of that awful event which has stayed with me despite all the hoopla and bullet angles and escape routes and complex theories that everyone and their uncle has offered since then. IT WAS NOT THAT HARD A SHOT!
If the earlier Hickey lawsuit wasn’t enough to dissuade the news media from treating this creaky story seriously, one only had to do a little research to find out that nine Secret Service agents were within a few feet of Hickey and all testified before the Warren Commission or gave statements about the day’s event and yet not one of them said they saw or heard Hickey’s AR-15 fired that day.
In fact, JFK's friend and aide, Dave Powers was riding in a car nearby and said that if a gun had gone off 1-2 feet away from him, he would have heard it.
well i was kinda thinking the photo i saw was probably altered...but i am really kinda burnt out on looking at more angles to the JFK assassination..im satisfied that all of the interconnections within the government
that have been revealed mean something within their own
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