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Old 11-16-2013, 06:10 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Among the large European countries, France, the United Kingdom, Russia, and Spain all finished unifying in 1801 or before. The unification processes of these countries began much earlier than this, though. In contrast, Germany and Italy only began unifying and finished unifying in the later half of the 19th century. My question is: What exactly are all of the reasons why Germany and Italy unified much later than the other large (by their population back then) European countries?
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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buffers
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:34 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
buffers
You mean the fact that the other large European powers wanted to have Germany and Italy as buffers for protection and as areas to fight many of their wars and thus did whatever they could to prevent Germany and Italy form unifying for as long as they could?
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:45 PM
 
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One of the drivers of German nationalism in the late 19th century and early 20th century was the fact the country was not united for so long.
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:00 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Originally Posted by jobseeker2013 View Post
One of the drivers of German nationalism in the late 19th century and early 20th century was the fact the country was not united for so long.
Yeah, this is probably true, and the same could very well apply to Italian nationalism during this time period as well.
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
Among the large European countries, France, the United Kingdom, Russia, and Spain all finished unifying in 1801 or before. The unification processes of these countries began much earlier than this, though. In contrast, Germany and Italy only began unifying and finished unifying in the later half of the 19th century. My question is: What exactly are all of the reasons why Germany and Italy unified much later than the other large (by their population back then) European countries?
You generally find European countries unified under one monarch only after a combination of wars, marriages, agreements and so forth. However usually but not always you find noblemen not willing to cede their hereditary rights and privledges to a central monarch.

This pretty much sums things up for Germany: Unification of Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is ironic you mention France as one of the causes of the French Revolution was more than a handful of nobles of former independent French territories wanting to "deBourbonise" France. That is they wanted the Bourbon kings gone and their feudal rights to control affairs in their own areas. Of course things didn't work out that way.

The various warring tribes of England had long formed a kingdom/crown though who should occupy the thing was often in dispute.

One of those disputes but the Tudors on the throne. Sadly for them the last, Elizabeth I died without an heir. Rather than risk wars the crown was settled on James I of Scotland. Later the two crowns of merged with some exceptions. If Elizabeth I had married and produced an heir Scotland may have remained an independent country to this day.

Italy is just to complicated for even an attempt so look here: Italian unification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
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Germany was slow in unification because it became a battle ground for most of the time since the Protestant Reformation and the rise of the Habsburgs who from their powerbase in Austria who viewed themselves as defenders of Catholicism and the Holy Roman Empire (that odd sucessor to Charlemagne and Otto the Great (The Holy Rpoman Empire was sometimes described as being neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire)). Germany was fought over by Catholic states (like Austria or France) Protestant powers (Like Sweden, Prussia, the Netherlands, later Britain under the Hanoverians) .German unification was achieved by the rise of Prussia, sweepin g the Holy Roman Empire into the dust bin of history (Credit this to Napoleon) getting the Austrians out of its considerable influence in Germany in 1866. and France in 1871. Only then did the 2nd Reich could be proclaimed (The First Reich was created by Otto the Great) on the Foundation of Prussia.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:37 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Germany and northern Italy were united—under the Holy Roman Empire. Despite being weak leaders of a fractious and multi-ethnic patrimony, the emperors were strong enough to prevent the constituent political entities (city states, bishoprics, duchies, etc.) from combining to challenge their authority. A classic example of “divide and rule.”

Another factor was the awkward mixing of temporal power and moral authority of the Church. It’s relatively easy to justify conquering a duchy, but justifying the takeover of a sovereign bishopric or the Papal States is much harder. For example, France did not occupy Avignon (legally part of the Papal States) until after the revolution—when it no longer cared what the Church thought.
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Old 11-20-2013, 08:22 PM
 
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Italy seems to be a case of not having any Italian state powerful enough or interested enough in upsetting the balance of power (that included the influential Papal State) to unify the country.

Germany was essentially kept from being unified by France (you could easily say that France's chief foreign policy aim until 1870, aside from destroying Britain, was to keep the Germans from ever being independently unified) and by the fact that there were three major German states (Austria, Prussia and Bavaria) with no clear leader among them until Prussia crushed Austria in the Six Weeks War, which set up the showdown with France (the other major obstacle to unification) which led to unification (but kept out Austria, something which later on, Hitler would try to "remedy").
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Votre_Chef View Post
Italy seems to be a case of not having any Italian state powerful enough or interested enough in upsetting the balance of power (that included the influential Papal State) to unify the country.

Germany was essentially kept from being unified by France (you could easily say that France's chief foreign policy aim until 1870, aside from destroying Britain, was to keep the Germans from ever being independently unified) and by the fact that there were three major German states (Austria, Prussia and Bavaria) with no clear leader among them until Prussia crushed Austria in the Six Weeks War, which set up the showdown with France (the other major obstacle to unification) which led to unification (but kept out Austria, something which later on, Hitler would try to "remedy").

Hitler also wanted other pieces of German territory like Switzerland, Bohemia and Moravia, Danzig, The Alsace-Lorraine, the Prussian share of the 18th Century Partition of Poland (i.e the lands around Poznan).
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