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Old 11-18-2013, 01:28 PM
 
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Oh, sure the "Soviet Union" no longer exists on paper and the hold that the former Soviet Union had on its neighbors isn't what it used to be, but the Soviet Union/Russian Federation hasn't exactly gone anywhere, it still possesses the power to strike the U.S. with nuclear weapons and on a global scale is still a geopolitical player capable of checking a number of American policies. So did the Cold War really end and better yet, did anybody really win or lose?
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Old 11-18-2013, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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The Cold War was not just the US vs the USSR, it was western capitalism vs eastern socialism which included the People's Republic of China even if the USSR and the People's Republic were mistrustful of one another. It was one type of ideology vs an opposing system.

In that what was perceived as the threat, the triumph of one ideology over the other, and that the socialist ideology has been overthrown in Russia and modified beyond recognition in China, there is no longer that ideological struggle defining all foreign policy.

So, yeah, any conflict arising these days between the US and Russia would be new, not an extension of the Cold War which is indeed over.
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Old 11-18-2013, 01:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
the Cold War which is indeed over.
Well I guess that ends that!

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Old 11-18-2013, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,674,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The Cold War was not just the US vs the USSR, it was western capitalism vs eastern socialism which included the People's Republic of China even if the USSR and the People's Republic were mistrustful of one another. It was one type of ideology vs an opposing system.

In that what was perceived as the threat, the triumph of one ideology over the other, and that the socialist ideology has been overthrown in Russia and modified beyond recognition in China, there is no longer that ideological struggle defining all foreign policy.

So, yeah, any conflict arising these days between the US and Russia would be new, not an extension of the Cold War which is indeed over.
Official policy in Russia today is more about traditional ways of doing things. Corruption was the standard long before the soviiets and it still is, and Putin is not about idology but power. The Soviet rule was an exception to part of the rule with its economic ideals, but with that over the force of culture has resumed.

The real danger of those armnamints left after the central control of the soviets it became a market place and still is today.

The rivalries with neighboring nations who used to be under the soviet umbrella, and had been dominated by the tsarist system before are a continuation too. The Soviets left their mark but in may ways it didn't last as long or go as deep as they believed.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:57 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,429 posts, read 10,639,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The Cold War was not just the US vs the USSR, it was western capitalism vs eastern socialism which included the People's Republic of China even if the USSR and the People's Republic were mistrustful of one another. It was one type of ideology vs an opposing system.

In that what was perceived as the threat, the triumph of one ideology over the other, and that the socialist ideology has been overthrown in Russia and modified beyond recognition in China, there is no longer that ideological struggle defining all foreign policy.

So, yeah, any conflict arising these days between the US and Russia would be new, not an extension of the Cold War which is indeed over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Well I guess that ends that!

Yeah, Grandstander pretty much hit the nail on the head.

We are moving back to traditional great power politics now I think.
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Old 11-19-2013, 03:08 PM
 
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With the end of the cold war came the end of slavery and the beginning of a new era of unification in the US, so I would say yes definitely the Cold War ended through the norths victory.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
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Of course the cold war ended. The USSR had the goal of destroying the USA, they had troops in countries all over the world, trying to turn them into soviet style govts. They had huge numbers of submarines and planes and missiles aimed at our country. They controlled all of eastern Europe and had well over a million troops in those countries, fully armed, plus a huge military in USSR. They ruled the Baltic countries, plus Ukraine. Don't forget the Berlin wall and Berlin being surrounded by hostile territory of East Germany. Soldiers on their borders ready to shoot anyone trying to leave they empire. Yes, things have gotten a lot better for lots of people because the Cold War is over and the USA won.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
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I'd say, yes, the Cold War ended and, yes, it had a victor.

The Cold War was a geopolitical standoff between the Soviet bloc (predominantly the USSR) and the West (primarily the United States, but countries like the UK and France played a more significant and independent role within their side than did the lesser 'partners' in the Soviet bloc).

The primary conflict was the goal of the Soviet bloc to maintain communism where it existed at the beginning of the Cold War and to advance communism into new territories, and the goal of the West to contain communism to where it existed at the end of the Cold War and to eventually roll it back from those places.

The goal of the Soviet bloc utterly failed. At communism's apex (around 1980) there were over 20 communist states around the world. They included the first and most powerful, both militarily and politically, the Soviet Union, and the most populous, China, which at the time was still plausibly communist. Today, communism is gone from Europe. With the fall of the Soviet bloc, communist expansion utterly stopped and has been retreating ever since. Presently, it lives on nominally only in China (where communism has next to nothing to do with the economy and is little more than a raison d'etre for the authoritarian government to justify itself), in Vietnam and Laos (where movement is towards more market-based economies), in Cuba (which has also moved in the direction of more traditional markets, but which is also a basket case where it seems that communism is not likely to outlast the Castros by long) and North Korea (more a despotic asylum than a country, much less a functioning centrally-planned economy of any real sort). So even where it arguably persists, communism is a pale shadow of its former self and continuing to fade.

The 'why' of all this is very debatable, but one side clearly saw its objectives achieved and one side clearly saw its objectives fail.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:55 PM
 
Location: On the periphery
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The comments regarding capitalism vs socialism reminded me of a clever turn of words by economist John Kenneth Galbraith: "Under capitalism, man exploits man; while under socialism, just the reverse is true."
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:50 PM
 
18,318 posts, read 15,378,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Oh, sure the "Soviet Union" no longer exists on paper and the hold that the former Soviet Union had on its neighbors isn't what it used to be, but the Soviet Union/Russian Federation hasn't exactly gone anywhere, it still possesses the power to strike the U.S. with nuclear weapons and on a global scale is still a geopolitical player capable of checking a number of American policies. So did the Cold War really end and better yet, did anybody really win or lose?
Technically, whatever has been called "Cold War" is over. But that's only technically speaking, because the geopolitical rivalry is not over, even if you can't stick the same label of the "Cold War" on it.
And that's what puts a question mark on "winners" and "losers," so the whole situation doesn't make me too optimistic to be honest.
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