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Old 11-21-2013, 11:48 AM
 
31,371 posts, read 33,507,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
1. A child is not responsible for their father's fame or infamy (In Joe Kennedy's case).
2. Many Presidents have been wealthy when they took office. I would say a "poor" President is indeed the exception to the rule.
3. IMO, a person's sexual life is pretty irrelevant to being President. The exception would be showing that i interfered with the President's job performance in some way. I don't see that at all in Kennedy's case. I also think Jack's "sexploits" are overstated. One must remember this is a man with terribly bad back who had to spend a huge amount of time sitting. He also suffered from Addison's Disease for which he took copious amounts of cortisone. I'm sure he "got around", but I think its considerably overstated.
The sexual infidelity is like arguing that Lincoln was a racist. Yeah, by today's standards Kennedy was the worst sort of philanderer, but he lived in the era of the Rat Pack, James Bond and Hugh Hefner. In the late 50's and early sixties if you were a hugely successful good looking man and didn't cheat, people would be questioning your sexuality.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:53 AM
Status: "Trump - excepting Jorgensen, the least of multiple evils" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
13,773 posts, read 8,469,565 times
Reputation: 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlaker View Post
The big deal was the veritable sea change in American life that JFK's election brought about. The 1950's were a dark gray narrow and dispiriting decade of decline and defeat. And then, instead of a stumbling worn out old warhorse in the White House, there was a man of intelligence, someone full of enthusiasm, youth, and vigor. And instead of the dowdy old Mamie, there was the elegant and graceful Jackie. The country was infected and inspired by these things. This is why the Kennedy's were beloved. And then it was all snuffed out.
Gross oversimplification, obviously intended to be spoon-fed to people who weren't around at the time; the real "flexing of muscles" by the Baby Boomers didn't get under way on either side of the political spectrum until 1968 -- and the socially-conservative Democrats of the time (admittedly only one faction of a divided party) applauded the harsh actions of the Chicago police at the demonstrations in Grant Park -- it's all there on the video tapes. It wasn't until 1972 that the Democratic leadership threw its lot in with the radicals (Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin were delegates to the 1972 convention in Miami) and set the stage for the realignment of the entire electorate.

It's clear that the people in Left Field would love to see a new "Childrens' Crusade" among the millenials, but as we found out the last time around, adult responsiblity has a way of tempering youthful enthusiasm.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 11-21-2013 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Vegas
1,789 posts, read 1,894,394 times
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I wish to thank each and every one of your for your civil, informed, and entertaining comments on this thread!

I was 22 when JFK ran and I voted for him - not so much for his policies but because I did not like my fellow Californian, Tricky Dick.

He was a man of my time and I clearly remember what an invigorating speaker he was, making us all believe we lived in a nation that could do anything we set our mind to. Even in far away southern France, I along with all the guys in my platoon, hung onto every word he spoke.

We felt awful about the Bay of Pigs but believed it wasn't his fault but that of a crooked CIA - and many believed it was mixed up with the Mafia in his assassination. I remember being angry about the stupidity of the commission formed to investigate it.

Korea had come to an end, although we still had troops there. We were moving into a time of economic growth.

He was an icon we needed for the time.

However, 50 years later, I find myself often saddened to learn my ivory statue had feet of mud and some of his decisions were not all that great.

Yet, he is honored because, in spite of the perils he overcame in the Pacific, he was put down by a mad man - or a secret cabal we may never learn the truth about.

Again, thanks to all for the great comments.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Waiting for a streetcar
1,137 posts, read 1,233,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Gross oversimplificsation
That's what's going to happen in 94 words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
...the real "flexing of muscles" by the Baby Boomers didn't get under way on either side of the political spectrum until 1968 -- and the socially-conservative Democrats of the time applauded the harsh actions of the Chicago police at the demonstrations in Grant Park.
There wasn't the massive involvement in Vietnam (or the massive lying about it) in 1961. JFK is remembered for his campaign and his 1000 days in office, all of which were more than four years over by the time of any event in 1968.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
It wasn't until 1972 that the Democratic leadership threw its lot in with the radicals (Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin were delegates to the 1972 convention in Miami) and set the stage for the realignment of the entire electorate.
Yeah, just as the White House burglars were breaking into the Watergate. And what was the deal with Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office again? But the race-based "southern strategy" that sent southern-thinking Wallace Democrats off to the Republican Party and gave rise to the cowardly and eventually disastrous neocons, was actually from 1968.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
It's clear that the people in Left Field would love to see a new "Childrens' Crusade" among the millenials, but as we found out the last time around, adult responsiblity has a way of tempering youthful enthusiasm.
The reactionary airheads you are trying to call adults have been responsible for one disaster after another. And they have a few more up their sleeves if we are foolish enough to put them back onstage ever again.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:23 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 9,473,809 times
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He was great until you ask what happened to his famous line "ask not..." then this own political party gets amnesia. They never bring it and wish he'd never said it.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Waiting for a streetcar
1,137 posts, read 1,233,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
He was great until you ask what happened to his famous line "ask not..." then this own political party gets amnesia. They never bring it and wish he'd never said it.
Well, that's the way the ones you invent in your head behave at least.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:39 PM
Status: "Trump - excepting Jorgensen, the least of multiple evils" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
13,773 posts, read 8,469,565 times
Reputation: 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlaker View Post
The reactionary airheads you are trying to call adults have been responsible for one disaster after another. And they have a few more up their sleeves if we are foolish enough to put them back onstage ever again.
The effects of which you "warn"? are the results of the markets over-ruling the dreams and hype of politicians, and a portion of the electorate that (as with JFK's supposed "charisma") guzzles it like so much cream soda; you will, of course, try to blame your favorite whipping-boys.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:55 PM
Status: "Trump - excepting Jorgensen, the least of multiple evils" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
13,773 posts, read 8,469,565 times
Reputation: 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
The sexual infidelity is like arguing that Lincoln was a racist. Yeah, by today's standards Kennedy was the worst sort of philanderer, but he lived in the era of the Rat Pack, James Bond and Hugh Hefner. In the late 50's and early sixties if you were a hugely successful good looking man and didn't cheat, people would be questioning your sexuality.
That might have been what was said among adults in adults-only venues, but it was not what was addressed in the "mainstream" media of the day due to the lingering effects of a more Puritanical era. The Sexual Revolution didn't really get underway until the availability of the Pill and the relaxing of self-imposed censorship in the mid-Sixties. Issues like the emancipation of women and a frank discussion of homosexuality took a few years longer than that. If you want a small snapshot of the sexual/political interface of the day, check out the film version of Allen Drury's book "Advise and Consent".
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:09 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
22,321 posts, read 21,412,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
That might have been what was said among adults in adults-only venues, but it was not what was addressed in the "mainstream" media of the day due to the lingering effects of a more Puritanical era. The Sexual Revolution didn't really get underway until the availability of the Pill and the relaxing of self-imposed censorship in the mid-Sixties. Issues like the emancipation of women and a frank discussion of homosexuality took a few years longer than that. If you want a small snapshot of the sexual/political interface of the day, check out the film version of Allen Drury's book "Advise and Consent".
True. The early 60s were more like the repressive 50s in terms of morals. It was still Puritanical. Don't confuse early 60s with late 60s.

The average person had no idea of his sexual exploits. I remember being absolutely shocked, years later, when it started to come out in the media. I don't even remember hearing anything about JFK and Marilyn Monroe until later on. People would have been appalled if they had known at the time.
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Vegas
1,789 posts, read 1,894,394 times
Reputation: 1772
So sad that, once again, a thread has been taken over by radical political hacks!!!
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