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I think the high Clinton count is a symptom of 3 or 4 factors,
such as:
1. Recent-memory effect
2. Better-than the two we've had since effect
2. Thinking Clinton was somehow responsible for a better economy effect
3. No credit to Republican congress (controlled both houses) effect
4. No credit to overarching societal factors (computer revolution) effect
5. Lingering charisma effect
6. Globalism was still young, hadn't exported our jobs yet effect
I agree with your points. Clinton IMO was more or less a average to maybe above average President, not one of the best but certainly far from the worst. The Cold War was over and the economy was booming so I always regarded the Clinton years as a missed opportunity to have real change in this country.
Anyway, I also think it is a generational thing. People who were kids in the 90s probably are more likely to think of Clinton in a very positive light. The same thing for Reagan for my generation and Kennedy for Baby Boomers. Its not that these were bad Presidents but they probably do not belong in the same category as Washington, Lincoln or the two Roosevelts.
The idea behind this monstrrosity was esentially to restart the economy while holding the "status quo" among the previously-dominant players. (Of course, with all power now concentrated within the Federal bureucracy essentially one monstrous cartel, it would not have been long before the influence-peddling known today as "crony capitalism" took root).
It was the Supreme Court's invalidation of this grand scheme in May of 1935 that cleared away the fear of interference and paved the way for a true recovery led by independent entrepeneurship. That path, of course was, after some progress, further blocked by a number of forms of Federal intererence such as the Wagner Act (essentially, exemption from Antitrust of the legitimized cartels known as labor unions). The midterm elections of 1938 then turned out many of the most strident New Dealers. That sparked a rally in 1938-39 whih, in turn, was tempered by Roosevelt's determination to hold to higher income tax rates after the 1940 elections.
The process continued to run in cycles while the postwar economy eventually recovered and grew to a size sufficient to accomodate the "middle-class welfare" and "societal overhead". And it appears that "crony capitalism: is alive, well, and designated as the model for the current crop of influence-peddlers within the Beltway.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-02-2013 at 07:06 AM..
Woodrow Wilson would definitely be on my list of 7 worst. Started the federal income tax, which of course was only supposed to apply to the super rich. Started the war on drugs (Harrison act of 1914). Started us down the path of America as police force for the world w/ WWI. Created the FBI, historically one of the most deleterious federal institutions. especially under Hoover. On his watch, people were jailed just for printing and distributing anti-war pamphlets (Schenk case). He was an outright bigot against blacks, and resegregated the federal work force, including the military.
I agree with wutititz, Wilson was among the worst.
Still aghast at Lincoln beating out Washington here.
If someone wants to start a 7-worst poll, just like this,
go ahead. My 7 worst would be:
- FDR
- Wilson
- LBJ
- Obama
- George W. Bush
- Truman
- Lincoln
When I get a list like this (with the possible exception of Obama) what I realize the poster is really doing is rejecting the modern world. These Presidents stood for values like an end to slavery, civil rights, an end to the evils of unregulated capitalism, and creation of international bodies to end or limit armed conflict. People who don't share those kinds of values are stuck in the eighteenth century or worse.
Do your math. You basically think that Presidents who served during 56 years out of the last 100 years were the "worst Presidents we had". Also, you conspicuously omit men like Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, and Richard Nixon from your list. I hope you realize just how far out of the mainstream that your views really are.
Last edited by markg91359; 12-03-2013 at 07:06 AM..
If someone wants to start a 7-worst poll, just like this,
go ahead. My 7 worst would be:
- FDR
- Wilson
- LBJ
- Obama
- George W. Bush
- Truman
- Lincoln
When I get a list like this (with the possible exception of Obama) what I realize the poster is really doing is rejecting the modern world. These Presidents stood for values like an end to slavery, civil rights, an end to the evils of unregulated capitalism, and creation of international bodies to end or limit armed conflict. People who don't share those kinds of values are stuck in the eighteenth century or worse.
Do your math. You basically think that Presidents who served during 56 years out of the last 100 years were the "worst Presidents we had". Also, you conspicuously omit men like Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, and Richard Nixon from your list. I hope you realize just how far out of the mainstream that your views really are.
Not really, this list could be easily be interpreted as reflecting a wish for rule of law, and a federal government restrained from overstepping its bounds to trample on states and/or individuals. Each of those 7 took major steps to loosen the bonds restricting Washington D.C. They got us to where we are today, where the D.C. area is now the richest region in the land, and people who speak their mind can expect to get audited by the IRS.
Anyway there is no need to try to read the poster's mind as to whether she/he had in mind a 'rejecting the modern world,' wish for rule of law, or whatever. We could just ask the poster what he/she had in mind with this list.
and MarkG, what is your take on my post #75 on Wilson? It was Wilson more than anyone who marked the divide between 19th and 20th century America, between limited gov't (albeit for white males only) and leviathan gov't. Is it rejection of the modern world to oppose the federal income tax, the war on drugs, US as world police force, tossing people in jail over pamphlets, and Wilson's eugenics agenda?
and MarkG, what is your take on my post #75 on Wilson? It was Wilson more than anyone who marked the divide between 19th and 20th century America, between limited gov't (albeit for white males only) and leviathan gov't. Is it rejection of the modern world to oppose the federal income tax, the war on drugs, US as world police force, tossing people in jail over pamphlets, and Wilson's eugenics agenda?
Well let's see. Wilson stood for:
1. The graduated income tax.
2. Direct election of senators
3. Women suffrage
4. The eight hour work day.
5. Laws against child labor.
6. The League of Nations (forerunner of the UN)
7. The Federal Trade Commission to protect consumers from fraud and unsafe products.
8. Tougher anti trust laws (Clayton Act)
9. An end to machine politics and party bosses.
10. Was willing to stand up to Germany when it tried to tell us if we traded with Britain it would sink our ships.
I could add the Federal Reserve System to this because I believe it was an accomplishment as well. Since the advent of the Federal Reserve this country has experienced fewer financial panics or recessions than before and they have been of shorter duration. The Federal Reserve is a controversial accomplishment to some. Its not to me.
Most of the parts of the Wilson Administration that involved "tossing people into jail" were a direct outgrowth of the war. This was a war that America didn't start. Did Wilson behave appropriately when he had Gene Debs prosecuted for sedition when he opposed the draft? No, he didn't. However, if that's the worst thing he did I can handle it.
The Wilson Presidency was a worthy follow up to the Teddy Roosevelt Presidency. It helps mark a time when America broke with its past and became a modern nation.
More constructive change was accomplished during the Wilson Administration that most people can imagine.
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