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Old 11-25-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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I believe that the Kennedys will be compared to Nero or Caligula 1000 years from now. The beginning of decadence of the old Republic.

Whay such a fuss for such a negative figure only good for glossy magazines?
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:17 AM
 
1,420 posts, read 3,183,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canpicapolls View Post

Whay such a fuss for such a negative figure only good for glossy magazines?
To sell magazines.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:27 AM
 
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Camelot and what actually occurred in his presidency was perhaps the last of the media and government conspiracies to fool the people. When it was discovered the media as we know it today and distrust started.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:05 PM
 
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Yes and no. In terms of substance, an argument can be made that JFK did not accomplish a great deal during his thousand day presidency. Congress was sandbagging his attempts to push civil rights legislation into law and his requests for tax cuts to forestall a recession were not getting much attention either.

However, I think what people who criticize JFK fail to understand is the effect that a charismatic individual can have in terms of inspiring citizens to do to their best and work for a better future. In the end, JFK may have been the most inspirational President that was ever elected to public office. JFK delivered speeches on a level that was perhaps second only to Franklin D. Roosevelt. Other Presidents were "tongue-tied" compared to JFK. His choice of Ted Sorenson to write his speeches was also brilliant. No one could turn phrases the way that Sorenson could. He was the master of masters at the craft of speech writing.

The establishment of a program like the Peace Corps brought out the very best in Americans. Kennedy's idealism in creating such a program meshed well with the realities of the time, which primarily involved demonstrating to the Third World countries why our system was better than communism.

When Kennedy announced the goal of "landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to Earth" by the end of the 1960's, he got everyone's attention. I wonder if any other President had demanded such a goal if he would have gotten the reception that JFK got.

Kennedy spoke in 1963 at the American University in Washington, D.C. in support of a Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. The speech, in essence was an overture to Premier Khruschev and the Soviet Union to join with him to eliminate a threat to every person in the world. When Kennedy talks of "our common link to humanity" in this speech, he may have given the best speech a President ever gave. It is a most powerful and stirring talk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_University_speech

There were myths in the Kennedy presidency. They were these:

1. Far from being a specimen of physical health, JFK was a pretty sick man with Addison's disease, colitis, and a very bad back. During the 1950's he was frequently hospitalized and once even given his last rites by a priest.

2. Rather than being effective with Congress, JFK was struggling to get most of his program through Congress.

3. Rather than being a wonderful family man, JFK was having affairs with more than one woman.

So, when you assess whether he was a good President or not, it really comes down to how much value do you put on the ability to speak and inspire the public? If you put a lot of value on that criteria, JFK and his myth endure.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,193,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canpicapolls View Post
I believe that the Kennedys will be compared to Nero or Caligula 1000 years from now. The beginning of decadence of the old Republic.

Whay such a fuss for such a negative figure only good for glossy magazines?
Really? What could be more decadent than Thomas Jefferson living the life-style of a European aristocrat while screwing his slave concubine and running up huge debts all over Virginia while waxing lyrical about the glories of republicanism, freedom, and the virtue of the "yeoman farmer"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Camelot and what actually occurred in his presidency was perhaps the last of the media and government conspiracies to fool the people. When it was discovered the media as we know it today and distrust started.
What "what actually occurred in his presidency"???
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Are the Kennedys a fabricated myth?
No way. They were real myths.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Kennedy Heights, Ohio. USA
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There was an article in the recent issue of the Rolling Stone by Robert Kennedy's son that kinda opened my eyes to how courageous and insightful John F Kennedy was. I was kinda of the opinion that President Kennedy was all hype and myth until i read the article. Kennedy wanted to end the Cold war and peacefully co-exist with the USSR which he indicated in that speech he gave at the American University in Washington D.C. in 1963. He realized the CIA was a threat to democracy because they deliberately lied to him before the Bay of Pigs fiasco about the Cubans trying to overthrow Castro not needing US air support for their invasion to succeed in an attempt to trap him to committing US air support when it would be obvious they would be defeated without air support. To the CIA and the Pentagon's anger and dismay he refused to be drawn into the conflict with Cuba. The CIA and the Pentagon were insubordinate to him concerning his directives about US involvement in Vietnam and was planning to divide the CIA into 1000 different pieces and scatter them to the winds. He was planning to bring back all the military advisers from Vietnam after the 1964 elections when he wouldn't have to worry about red baiting Presidential opponents. He was very angry that 100 US advisers died in Vietnam in 1963 because he explicitly stated he didn't want the advisers involved in combat and felt the CIA and the Pentagon was doing their own agenda in Vietnam. He wanted to let the Vietnamese solve there own political problems. He and Robert visited Vietnam in 1951 when the French was fighting the guerrillas and he was marveled by the French Legionnaires fearlessness and bravery but saw in his own eyes the French was doomed to fighting a hopeless cause and he didn't want to repeat France's mistakes. Kennedy viewed the French-Indochina War as a conflict of nationalism vs colonialism and rich white people vs poor non white people. Kennedy said how do you defeat an enemy that is everywhere and nowhere at the same time and had support from the people in general. He kept a cool head during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis when the Pentagon was pressuring him into airstrikes on the Russians and Cubans in Cuba after the US spy plane was shot down over Cuba. He thought the military establishment was insane because the military leaders wanted to do a preemptive first nuclear strike on the USSR while the USA had the advantage but Kennedy didn't want to be the man that caused the greatest loss of life in human history. If he would have lived the Cold war would have ended 25 years earlier and the USA wouldn't have got bogged down in the Vietnam quagmire.

Last edited by Coseau; 11-25-2013 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:19 PM
 
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Well Camelot was not just Jack, but JFK, RFK, and Ted Kennedy, that trio dominated politics in the early 60s, and their influence got other Kennedy's elected (Joe Kennedy II, Joe Kennedy III, Patrick Kennedy II, (all Us Reps), and Kathleen Harrington Kennedy (Lt. Gov Maryland) and Caroline became ambassador to Japan, Jean Kennedy became ambassador to Ireland). Couple that with Citizens energy and the special Olympics, hardly a family in US history can compare to their legacy, that said, it is romanticized because he was killed (as well as Lincoln).
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:04 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,032,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canpicapolls View Post
I believe that the Kennedys will be compared to Nero or Caligula 1000 years from now. The beginning of decadence of the old Republic.

Whay such a fuss for such a negative figure only good for glossy magazines?
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Old 11-25-2013, 10:57 PM
 
2,661 posts, read 5,467,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canpicapolls View Post
I believe that the Kennedys will be compared to Nero or Caligula 1000 years from now. The beginning of decadence of the old Republic.

Whay such a fuss for such a negative figure only good for glossy magazines?
No one is perfect. There will be people that are pro and anti any political party, president or public figure. There is so much myth about Kennedy both good and bad. I agree with the previous posts in that he was a very charismatic figure. Even viewing his speeches today and seeing programs about him you can still feel the magic and knowing his tragic fate adds to his myth.

He wasn't anyway as decadent as you are saying. He was genuinely commited to equal rights and did want to make a difference in his Presidency.

He was an exciting, young president with a lovely glamorous wife who was cut down in his prime in the age of television.

I think some of the myths are also the amount of women he is rumoured to have been involved with. While I'm sure he had affairs I don't think he was as prolific as has been reported. He was afterall not as robust as he appeared and suffered numerous health problems. His back pain was so bad he had to wear a back brace which was one of the contributory factors in his death.

Some of the events associated with Kennedy just come across as pure fabrication to me.
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