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Old 07-28-2014, 07:21 AM
 
Location: NW Indiana
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The neolithic settlement at Vicna and other contemporary sites included multiroom houses and other structures that may have been two of three stories high. However, I have not heard of any of the massive temples like the onoes the Sumarian culture was famous for.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:53 AM
 
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Re: metal working

You know from my reading I've found that archaeologists are pretty well convinced that the Balkan regions and surrounding areas such as Greece, Turkey and Hungary were a 'trading gateway' to other areas of prehistoric Europe.

The skill of making copper not only gained trade networks but also in arguably developing a 'class' culture. It was there according to archaeologists that complex social structures came out of that specific work, namely rich and poor, rulers and ruled. Prior to the Neolithic there was none of this setup.

In Varna, Bulgaria a grave was found dated to the Copper Age where two pounds of gold was buried with a man about 45-50 years old. This individual was surely in an upper caste socially and economically.

All in all, it is intriguing to think that Copper Age societies there in the Balkans were really stratified in such a way as to enable them to develop copper artifacts. It would only be through some 'structure' that those societies and cultures would be able to have success doing that work.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Re: metal working

You know from my reading I've found that archaeologists are pretty well convinced that the Balkan regions and surrounding areas such as Greece, Turkey and Hungary were a 'trading gateway' to other areas of prehistoric Europe.

The skill of making copper not only gained trade networks but also in arguably developing a 'class' culture. It was there according to archaeologists that complex social structures came out of that specific work, namely rich and poor, rulers and ruled. Prior to the Neolithic there was none of this setup.

In Varna, Bulgaria a grave was found dated to the Copper Age where two pounds of gold was buried with a man about 45-50 years old. This individual was surely in an upper caste socially and economically.

All in all, it is intriguing to think that Copper Age societies there in the Balkans were really stratified in such a way as to enable them to develop copper artifacts. It would only be through some 'structure' that those societies and cultures would be able to have success doing that work.
I have been confused about Varna, though. It is a contemporary and related, but different culture than Vinca, correct?
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:58 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
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It is interesting to consider what else was going on at the same relative time that copper smelting was getting started in the Balkans (~5000 bc).

Agriculture had become well established in the the Mediteranean area and had probably reached the Atlantic coast of Europe by 5000 bc. Beer manufacture (which is personally a favorite discovery for me) had probably been going on for hundreds of years in some areas of Mesopotamia by 5000 bc, yet the first winery was probably not going to be established for almost another 1000 years.

Circular ditches around religious / administrative centers were being used in Central Europe. Weaving and pottery production were well established.

One of the first stone standing circle was constructed in Armenia (Metsamor site). The Dimini culture was becoming established in Greece.

This all points out the humans were starting to gather in communities. Agriculture was allowing for specialization of skills and some amount of trade to exist.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:11 AM
 
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Re: ' Varna....different culture?

Yes, it looks as if Varna was contemporary with Vinca. I do know an archaeologist now deceased believed that those 'Old Europe' cultures had more similarities than differences say in pottery styles or settlements. The other cultures brought in were the Cucuteni, Tripol'ye, Cernavoda, Bodrogkeresztur (I had a relative with a name like the 3rd and 4th syllable..
Old Europe lives on...;-)...and Gumelnita. Not sure now though how everyone views the specific cultural differences with the groups. In any case, that was a fascinating period for Europe!
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Old 08-01-2014, 04:10 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
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I found a reference in a book called "Europe Between the Oceans" by B. Cunliffe that shows that copper from the Balkan region was traded over an area as far north as Czech Republic and as far east as the Volga.
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Old 10-05-2014, 04:20 AM
 
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Would like to draw everyone's attention to a couple of new discoveries:


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49645182/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/bulgaria-claims-find-europes-oldest-town/#.U-2vgLl0xv4

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-version.html[/SIZE]

I mean, I am sold. If you accept that all of these cultures are related under the umbrealla of "Danube river valley" or "old Europe," then you have:

Oldest writing/proto writing in the world: Vinca Script (used by many Old European cultures)
Oldest gold working: Varna graves
Oldest Copper working: Vinca and others
Extensive trade networks: vinca
Separation of trades: all of old Europe
Two story Houses: vinca
Urbanization: Vinca
Stone Walls: New find in Bulgaria
Evidence of iron Smelting: New find in Croatia
Solar/Calender knowledge: Gosseck Circle and related
Social stratification: Evidenced by Varna

It is hard to see what was lacked to call this a civilization....if indeed you accept all of these cultures as related.
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Old 10-19-2014, 02:35 AM
 
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Nobody wasn't to comment on this defensive fortification found in Bulgaria dating from 4700 B.C. to 4200 B.C?

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Old 10-20-2014, 01:45 AM
 
Location: USA
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My theory is that the first human civilization is now underwater. There was a continent as big as Africa that once existed in the pacific where its now covered by the pacific ocean some 40,000 years ago. It was called Mu or Lu in Polynesia.

The oral stories of polynesians said that there was a massive earthquake that shook the entired earth and this continent dropped straight down some 5000 feet below and so it leaves a giant hole where it used to be. Ocean water from near by rushed in and fill this giant hole and created the pacific ocean. The islands in the pacifics today are just the hightes tip of mountains of this once great continent.

If you look on google earth, you can see 1000s foot walls runs all the way around the pacific ocean. Look it up. You can almost see roads from North to south and east to west. In the coast of Japan, they discoverd a massive city underwater and so high tech. Look it up
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Sign View Post
My theory is that the first human civilization is now underwater. There was a continent as big as Africa that once existed in the pacific where its now covered by the pacific ocean some 40,000 years ago. It was called Mu or Lu in Polynesia.

The oral stories of polynesians said that there was a massive earthquake that shook the entired earth and this continent dropped straight down some 5000 feet below and so it leaves a giant hole where it used to be. Ocean water from near by rushed in and fill this giant hole and created the pacific ocean. The islands in the pacifics today are just the hightes tip of mountains of this once great continent.

If you look on google earth, you can see 1000s foot walls runs all the way around the pacific ocean. Look it up. You can almost see roads from North to south and east to west. In the coast of Japan, they discoverd a massive city underwater and so high tech. Look it up
This is nonsense. We know because of plate tectonics that this is not true. There was unsubmerged land around Australia and the like that is now submerged, but there was no massive continent.

The Japanese "pyramid" is a natural formation and you can see the same "impossible" 90 degree angles cut into coastal rock by the tide. I am not familiar with you claims of walls, but based on such "discoveries" as the Biminy road, I guarantee that if there is any truth to this claim at all, they are natural formations.

This is a thread about a very real civilization. there is nothing of Graeme Hancock in it.
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