Why do Brits deny US bailed them out in WW2? (Britain, European)

[Moth]

Originally Posted by bigpaul

what "the allies" is a lot of nonsense is it> typical yank attitude.

Thank you for finally revealing your true motivations on this thread.

[mensaguy]

Please stick to the topic and stop the personal bickering.

[drro]

Originally Posted by bigpaul

I am totally pissed off with this attitude that "The USA won WW2" all on its own, it seems to be a national obsession, it was a combined effort by "the allies" and don't you all forget it.

The Russians had the biggest part in defeating nazi Germany. The Americans fought along with the British and they did a great job for which all allied countries should be very thankful but they did not bail out the British. In addition, the US acted out of self interest too, they did not want the Germans to win because technologically superior Germany was a direct threat to the US and they did not want communist Russia to get too much influence in Europe in the scenario that the Germans had lost the war against the Russians alone.

[travric]

Re: 'The Russians had the biggest part in defeating Nazi Germany'

I'd say understanding that event will perhaps give clear insight into the mind of post-war and modern Russia. We're 70 years beyond the war yet its memory flows through Russian blood hot as the blistering sun.

[easthome]

Originally Posted by Moth

No, it was a very honest statement.

You may not give a toss about Stalin's collaboration with Hitler, but it the Poles sure did.

Is that a very British thing to say?

As for Stalingrad (love it when a living dictator names a city after himself), changing the subject is most often a sign that someone has lost the argument.

Changing the subject?? What are you talking about! The question isn't about how ethical Stalin was or what it has to do with the Poles, the simple truth is that (many) Americans like yourself seem to think that its thanks to the Americans that the 2nd world war was won, the reality is Britain was NOT saved by America or Americans, you're just too damn arrogant to see it any other way, yes America were invaluable but so where the Britons, the Canadians, the Australians, New Zealanders etc etc etc. But the real fact of the matter is that if you HAD to pick one nation with the greatest contribution it would probably be the Russians (whether they were un-ethical, full of self interest, downright evil or 'funny looking' is neither here nor there), the people of Stalingrad were as hard a nails, show some respect for a change.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by easthome

Changing the subject?? What are you talking about! The question isn't about how ethical Stalin was or what it has to do with the Poles, the simple truth is that (many) Americans like yourself seem to think that its thanks to the Americans that the 2nd world war was won, the reality is Britain was NOT saved by America or Americans, you're just too damn arrogant to see it any other way, yes America were invaluable but so where the Britons, the Canadians, the Australians, New Zealanders etc etc etc. But the real fact of the matter is that if you HAD to pick one nation with the greatest contribution it would probably be the Russians (whether they were un-ethical, full of self interest, downright evil or 'funny looking' is neither here nor there), the people of Stalingrad were as hard a nails, show some respect for a change.

Really?


My first post on this thread began with this:

"Truth be told, America did not ride in on a white horse to save the day in WWII. Just like the British and the French, we dragged our feet and tried to avoid it. And just like them, events overwhelmed us and the inevitable happened. "(#480)


I went on to say this:

Saved, rescued? No.
Tilt the balance? Yes. (#480)


Then I concluded with this:

The Allies defeated the Axis. Everybody involved sacrificed a great deal. Be happy we won and save your consternation for the neutrals and places like Argentina. (#480)


I reckon those statements are pretty fair as well as inclusive. In direct contrast, Easthorne, you have been spewing jingoistic bile from the beginning John Wayne? Really? What is this obsession with movies? Is that where you get your information?

And now you cannot calm down, read carefully, and figure out what I am saying about Stalin. You try to paint it as something else. Yes, the Russians sacrificed hugely. No doubt. I am simply saying they would have been in a better place if Stalin had not collaborated with Hitler and kept his army in a state of chaos. If FDR had cut a deal with Stalin and helped them invade a country, you would be screaming bloody murder. And...Rightfully...SO!

Whatever, Nationalism is what it is. PM your email and I will send you a photo of me next to the statue of Monty in London.

And yes, I am being very reverential.

[travric]

Re: "I have a strong impression, having read extensively on the topic of WW2 and post-war years (has always been an interesting subject for me, both grandparents fought and one was killed in that war) that the Allies had secretly divided Europe into the Soviet and Western spheres of influence, and basically stabbed the Eastern European democracies in the back. Granted, of these the only true European democracies I can think of were Finland, Czechoslovakia and, to a lesser extent, Poland. Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria were basically fascist dictatorships.

In the end, Stalin occupied precisely what he'd agreed to occupy, and pulled the Soviet troops out of Austria and the parts of Germany that were supposed to be part of the Allied zone. Makes one wonder how much of what happened next was really a big surprise for the Allies"


I think you read well. I'd suggest if Churchill and Roosevelt had any bad dreams it would certainly be the fact that ironically Europe was not made safe for democracy as a result of the war. As the Allies got rid of one autocratic and totalitarian state boom another popped up in its place. And that one couldn't be dealt with like those wack-o-mole games at amusement parks. The fever of that 20th century sickness still had a lot more of a course to run.

[Mag3.14]

Originally Posted by easthome

Changing the subject?? What are you talking about! The question isn't about how ethical Stalin was or what it has to do with the Poles, the simple truth is that (many) Americans like yourself seem to think that its thanks to the Americans that the 2nd world war was won, the reality is Britain was NOT saved by America or Americans, you're just too damn arrogant to see it any other way, yes America were invaluable but so where the Britons, the Canadians, the Australians, New Zealanders etc etc etc. But the real fact of the matter is that if you HAD to pick one nation with the greatest contribution it would probably be the Russians (whether they were un-ethical, full of self interest, downright evil or 'funny looking' is neither here nor there), the people of Stalingrad were as hard a nails, show some respect for a change.

I think your reading of WW2 history is somewhat casual to say the least..

[Mr. In-Between]

Originally Posted by travric

Re: 'The Russians had the biggest part in defeating Nazi Germany'

I'd say understanding that event will perhaps give clear insight into the mind of post-war and modern Russia. We're 70 years beyond the war yet its memory flows through Russian blood hot as the blistering sun.

I don't know if this is still true, but as recently as a few years ago visiting the graves of Soviet soldiers who died in WWII was still a common wedding tradition in some parts of Russia. Newlywed couples would leave the ceremony, go to the cemetery, and leave flowers at the graves of those who made their happy life together possible. My ex was Russian; she showed me photos of her parents doing this after their wedding.

Just think - roughly 45% of everyone who died in World War II was a Soviet citizen. That's just mind-boggling. You can damned well bet that's going to have a profound and long-lasting impact on any country's cultural psyche.

[Felix C]

Is that only ETO? Does not include total Chinese casualties?