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I believe the Vietnam War still would have escalated. When Kennedy came into office there were 800 troops, mostly advisers, left there from Eisenhower. By the time Kennedy was assassinated 2 years and 10 months later, there over 17,000 troops in the country with plans to send in more.
Kennedy was a more skilled and persuasive politician than LBJ and might have finessed the opposition to the war a little better, with less divisiveness to the country, but the war still would have been a quagmire with the outcome basically the same.
If you read Robert Caro's incredible multivolume biography of LBJ, you will see that there is no way that JFK could have gotten the Civil Rights Act passed. It wasn't only that LBJ was a southerner (which he wasn't really - he was a Texan), it was that he had recently been in utter, complete control of the Senate, and the Senate knew what he did with power when he had it.
If you read Robert Caro's incredible multivolume biography of LBJ, you will see that there is no way that JFK could have gotten the Civil Rights Act passed. It wasn't only that LBJ was a southerner (which he wasn't really - he was a Texan), it was that he had recently been in utter, complete control of the Senate, and the Senate knew what he did with power when he had it.
LBJ was a Texan but (1) Many of Texas' founding fathers were Southerners (like Davy Crokkette) (2) Was a Slave State, (3) Joined the Confederacy and one of the South's greatest Generals was John Bell Hood, CSA troops sang and marched to The Yellow Rose of Texas as well as the Rose of Alabamie (4) Texas was a Jim Crow state and (5) The KKK was very active in Eastern Texas. I think Texas plays in the SEC now too!!!
Would he have gotten reelected?
Would he pull out the troops in Vietnam sooner?
Would we have landed on the moon much sooner, and perhaps continued the space programme to reach unimaginable heights(Mars landing example)?
If JFK had survived, we would have kept Vietnam from going communist. It would have been extremely difficult for the radical Left to gin up opposition to him as a "baby-killer" as easily as it did against LBJ.
Personally, I think JFK was murdered by radicals in order to facilitate the takeover of the Democratic Party by the Marxist-friendly Left in the 60s. LBJ was a much more palatable president philosophically for the Left, both as a civil rights and social entitlements champion AND as a non-activist executive in terms of his handling of Vietnam. LBJ became the transitional bridge to an McGovern and Carter, representing the dawn of the new "Touchy Feely Liberal" era. All they had to do was surround LBJ with the sort of Leftist syncophants necessary to bridle him and influence his decisions appropriately. Especially in as regards the rather silly military strategy he pursued in Southeast Asia. If you want to lose public support as an excuse to give up a war, his method was the textbook example of success.
The Left wanted us out of Vietnam, and JFK had to go. It was all about turning America from a Cold Warrior mentaility to a Leftist-friendly mentality.
If you read Robert Caro's incredible multivolume biography of LBJ, you will see that there is no way that JFK could have gotten the Civil Rights Act passed. It wasn't only that LBJ was a southerner (which he wasn't really - he was a Texan), it was that he had recently been in utter, complete control of the Senate, and the Senate knew what he did with power when he had it.
How is Texas not culturally and politically Southern??
Texas remains one of the most "Southern" states in the union. We like to call it, "the West" ... but it fought with the Confederacy during the Civil War.
"Texas declared its secession from the United States on February 1, 1861, and joined the Confederate States of America on March 2, 1861, replacing its governor, Sam Houston, when he refused to take an oath of allegiance to the Confederacy. During the subsequent American Civil War, Texas was most useful for supplying soldiers for Confederate forces and in the cavalry. Texas was mainly a "supply state" for the Confederate forces until mid-1863, when the Union capture of the Mississippi River made large movements of men, horses or cattle impossible. Some cotton was sold in Mexico, but most of the crop became useless because of the Federal naval blockade of Galveston and other ports such as Houston."
If JFK had survived, we would have kept Vietnam from going communist. It would have been extremely difficult for the radical Left to gin up opposition to him as a "baby-killer" as easily as it did against LBJ.
Personally, I think JFK was murdered by radicals in order to facilitate the takeover of the Democratic Party by the Marxist-friendly Left in the 60s. LBJ was a much more palatable president philosophically for the Left, both as a civil rights and social entitlements champion AND as a non-activist executive in terms of his handling of Vietnam. LBJ became the transitional bridge to an McGovern and Carter, representing the dawn of the new "Touchy Feely Liberal" era. All they had to do was surround LBJ with the sort of Leftist syncophants necessary to bridle him and influence his decisions appropriately. Especially in as regards the rather silly military strategy he pursued in Southeast Asia. If you want to lose public support as an excuse to give up a war, his method was the textbook example of success.
The Left wanted us out of Vietnam, and JFK had to go. It was all about turning America from a Cold Warrior mentaility to a Leftist-friendly mentality.
Wow .. that's one of the most "far-out" views of history I've ever come across in my entire life.
Well, everyone is entitled to their views, but having lived through it and being a Vietnam Veteran ... and having returned to Southeast Asia 18 months ago, the reality we can certainly be assured of is that JFK was moving the country away from a war economy towards a peace time economy.
The rich has certainly gotten richer and the poor, poorer since the Right Wing "redistribution of wealth" that went into full gear under Ronald Reagan in 1980. The warnings he gave us to be wary of special interests was right on target.
Oh ... and "Led Zeppelin" ... I notice you've misspelled two key words in your response ... "syncophants" and "mentaillity". Interesting. (I take you meant, "psychopath" and "mentality"?)
To be civilized, one must be civil.
War traumatizes. Untreated trauma turns into Personality Disorders like ... Narcissistic PDO, Borderline PDO, Anti-Social PDO .. and leads to diminished empathy and remorse... which leads to antisocial behavior, Attachment Issues and other bonding ... "feeling" disorders. Even criminality has it's roots in psychopathy ... and surprisingly, generational toxic shame rest at the root of it all.
I live in the South and it's very, very clear that this region still suffers from the effects of trauma left by the Civil War. We're still no where close to being healed because we're not working on it. All these wars ... in the history of our country, we've only experienced 26 years of peace.
It's a small wonder that the country is now in the grip of a "Heroin epidemic". Further, the CDC and other government agencies say that the United States uses 80% of the WORLD'S pain killers. We're using 80% of the world's supplies of heroin, morphine, oxycontin, and psych meds both prescribed and bought illegally.
What the heck are we self-medicating??
It's said that we are now being given only one unifying myth.
Trickle Down (the greatest redistribution of wealth in the history of the country) has replaced the Horatio Alger myth. We don't even hear that one pushed at us any more. But the media is full of "War" and fear. Why?
It all goes back to the Norman Conquest.
Same people. Same tactics.
If war was so good for us, why do we need so much pain numbing? (We haven't even begun talking about meth, alcohol, marijuana ... bath salts, "mollies", Ecstasy... nor all the behavioral addictions like gambling that are even more self-destructive than substance addiction.)
If the Kennedy's hadn't been killed, there would have been stronger legislation against corporate greed. There would have been less poverty. Our legacy of Apartheid would still have us "Divided and Conquered" ... but perhaps there would have been less homelessness and issues like school shootings wouldn't plague us so.
Why did I add school shootings and bullying?
NPR broadcasted the findings of a national study done in 2000. It said that since 1980, the level of empathy has gone down 82% throughout the country and the level of compassion has risen that same amount. "War" feeds our ego and our fears. A tightened economy makes it harder on parents to bond with and spend time with their children. Hence, children bond more with other children. (Orwell runs throughout all of this doesn't he.) Without the "parental shield" ... kids are left to resolve problems with childish reasoning.
Kennedy was a politician -- not a saint.
Unless LBJ was talking out of both sides of his mouth, his "Great Society" polices would have made us a far better country than the futility of Vietnam. (Those countries have a long.. LONG history of fighting amongst themselves. They are culturally Feudalistic. Right now in 2014, Thailand is the only country in the world with citizens fighting to be govern UN-democratically by an unelected governing group.)
Its insane and totally Narcissistic to think we can force any country to be like us when we're so sick ourselves and we're no longer even a Democracy!
Democracy died in this country when some group ... the group powerful enough to signal Secrete Service men to get off the car Kennedy was in prior to that miracle shot.
We're not even a Republic. Noam Chompsky and other M.I.T. professors clearly point out that we're now living in a Polyarchy. Every four years, they march out some member of the ruling class for us to decide which puppet we want to look at and argue about for the next decade.
We need to heal. We need to mature and we need to educate ourselves.
I strongly believe that if you aren't a millionaire, you have no business sending so many millionaires to Congress. It's not in your best interest ... regardless if they're called "Republican or Democrat".
Last edited by veganwriter; 01-30-2014 at 08:51 AM..
I believe JFK was maturing as a politician, and as a man by 1963. IMO he would have stopped Vietnam becoming a major conflict. He was removed, so we will never know.
I don't see Vietnam elevating to the same level as it did.
Sadly, that's about the only difference I think would have lasted.
His efforts to shut down the Israeli nuclear programme and clamp down
on the Federal Reserve would have likely been unsustained, that is, unless
his brother Bobby succeeded him. This is why they had to take out both.
By whom. Oh, please do tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganwriter
Oh ... and "Led Zeppelin" ... I notice you've misspelled two key words in your response ... "syncophants" and "mentaillity". Interesting. (I take you meant, "psychopath" and "mentality"?)
Democracy died in this country when some group ... the group powerful enough to signal Secrete Service men to get off the car Kennedy was in prior to that miracle shot.
Sorry, I had to cut most of the incoherent off-topic rambling you apparently cut and paste into every thread...
As for the words I think he was going for "sycophant" - a person who acts obsequiously toward someone important in order to gain advantage.
I'll ask you the same thing I asked old Snowball. Who is this mysterious group that had JFK killed and signalled the Secret Service men to get off the car? I'm really curious to find out if you and Snowball have the same theory here or not. Personally, I'd love to get some popcorn and watch the two of you argue your "who killed JFK theories"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zeppelin
If JFK had survived, we would have kept Vietnam from going communist. It would have been extremely difficult for the radical Left to gin up opposition to him as a "baby-killer" as easily as it did against LBJ.
Personally, I think JFK was murdered by radicals in order to facilitate the takeover of the Democratic Party by the Marxist-friendly Left in the 60s. LBJ was a much more palatable president philosophically for the Left, both as a civil rights and social entitlements champion AND as a non-activist executive in terms of his handling of Vietnam. LBJ became the transitional bridge to an McGovern and Carter, representing the dawn of the new "Touchy Feely Liberal" era. All they had to do was surround LBJ with the sort of Leftist syncophants necessary to bridle him and influence his decisions appropriately. Especially in as regards the rather silly military strategy he pursued in Southeast Asia. If you want to lose public support as an excuse to give up a war, his method was the textbook example of success.
The Left wanted us out of Vietnam, and JFK had to go. It was all about turning America from a Cold Warrior mentaility to a Leftist-friendly mentality.
Considering the absolute veracity with which LBJ pursued the war in Vietnam at a time when most of the nation wanted him to pull out and the fact that Nixon, a Republican, is the one who ended the war; doesn't your theory fall a little short?
Also, JFK was considered a "liberal" in comparison to LBJ within the Democratic party of the early 1960's. Within the party, JFK was a "moderate liberal". LBJ was solidly considered a "conservative moderate" and not liberal at all within the scope of the party. In fact, the liberal wing of the party railed over the selection of LBJ as VP. How do you reconcile that these supposed liberal Marxist killed the liberal to put the conservative one in power?
There's an interesting book, 11/22/63 by Steven King, that you might want to check out.
Yes!
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Huh?? Really Parentologist?
We're using 80% of the world's supplies of heroin, morphine, oxycontin, and psych meds both prescribed and bought illegally. 
