If JFK had survived, what would it be like? (60's, economic, events)

[texdav]

I think so many have a pie in the sky rewritten history on JFK. He was perhaps the most anti and willing to go to extremes compared to other president's in what he saw communist treat. I mean when your will to murder Castro and what happened with coup in south Vietnam it say all one needs to know really.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by Grandstander

Goat....great work in this thread, splendid posts.

Thanks for the kind words GS.

Originally Posted by Unsettomati

To sum up, your post is spectacularly wrong in every regard.

Nice summary and counters.

[Snowball7]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Dean Rusk, Robert McNamara, McGeorge Bundy would have given Kennedy the same advice the gave Johnson, with the same results.

Kennedy was President when Israel acquired nuclear material. Wonder how that happened during the "clampdown".

The rest is paranoid rambling.

1. no, you cannot say JFK would have escalated Vietnam. It is unsupportable and did not occur.
2. there's lots of material out there about JFK opposing "Israel"'s nuclear weapon programme.
3. JFK issued debt-free US Notes (not Federal Reserve notes), and Silver Certificate dollars.

all this is easily researchable.

now, I'm not saying who killed JFK. There are many parties who wanted it done.
But one thing I'm pretty sure of is that E. Howard Hunt lied on his death bed.

[kanhawk]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I guess he was a good looking man, so many women liked him, but I don't think he did anything good for our country.

Oddly enough, I read that in the 1960 election that Nixon got slightly more of the women's vote than Kennedy. What little "gender gap" there was in that election had Kennedy winning with more male votes. Can't find it now on google, but I know I saw that somewhere.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by Snowball7

1. no, you cannot say JFK would have escalated Vietnam. It is unsupportable and did not occur.
2. there's lots of material out there about JFK opposing "Israel"'s nuclear weapon programme.
3. JFK issued debt-free US Notes (not Federal Reserve notes), and Silver Certificate dollars.

all this is easily researchable.

now, I'm not saying who killed JFK. There are many parties who wanted it done.
But one thing I'm pretty sure of is that E. Howard Hunt lied on his death bed.

Then you need to do better research.

If I can't say that Kennedy would have escalated in Viet Nam neither can you say he would not have. Kennedy was the "bear any burden" and "twilight struggle" President. What exactly do you think he was talking about? Hint: in involved the USSR, guerrilla style wars and our military involvement.

Kennedy signed the legislation discontinuing the issuance of Silver Certificates shortly before his assassination.

He also guaranteed Israeli security.

[Snowball7]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

If I can't say that Kennedy would have escalated in Viet Nam neither can you say he would not have.

Was JFK going to pull out of Vietnam?
Yes. He had a plan to do just that, as University of Texas professor Jamie Galbraith demonstrates in this recent piece for The Nation.

Jamie Galbraith, University of Texas
The question was hotly contested in late 1963. As with Cuba, most of JFK’s military advisers, as well as the Pentagon and the CIA, favored escalation, while President Kennedy resisted and sought to chart a different course.
JFKfacts » Was JFK going to pull out of Vietnam?

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Kennedy signed the legislation discontinuing the issuance of Silver Certificates shortly before his assassination.

You're missing the point. It's not about silver. It's about sovereignty.
Executive Order 11110

John-F-Kennedy.net - John F. Kennedy vs The Federal Reserve

On June 4, 1963 President John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order 11110 providing him with the authority "to issue silver certificates against all silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption…" This seems like an attempt to bypass the Federal Reserve System by issuing real, silver-backed money to replace counterfeit Federal Reserve Notes. Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963.

There is a rumor that the "Kennedy silver certificates" were actually printed and that one of the first things President Lyndon B. Johnson did after assuming power was to have the "Kennedy silver certificates" destroyed. In 1964 Johnson, serving as the voice of the Federal Reserve bankers, said, "Silver has become too valuable to be used as money." This amounted to a brazen boast that the bankers would eliminate any money with intrinsic value. On November 22, 1963, the day of Kennedy's funeral, the first 50 million "no-promise" Federal Reserve Notes were released into circulation.

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

He also guaranteed Israeli security.

He did that begrudgingly as an incentive for Israel to not produce nuclear weapons.
It was nothing more than a political maneuver.

289. Telegram From the Department of State to the Embassy in Israel

Washington, July 4, 1963, 3:02 p.m.
Docs 284-308
"Dear Mr. Prime Minister:

"It gives me great personal pleasure to extend congratulations as you assume your responsibilities as Prime Minister of Israel. You have our friendship and best wishes in your new tasks. It is on one of these that I am writing you at this time.

"You are aware, I am sure, of the exchanges which I had with Prime Minister Ben-Gurion concerning American visits to Israel's nuclear facility at Dimona. Most recently, the Prime Minister wrote to me on May 27./4/ His words reflected a most intense personal consideration of a problem that I know is not easy for your Government, as it is not for mine. We welcomed the former Prime Minister's strong reaffirmation that Dimona will be devoted exclusively to peaceful purposes and the reaffirmation also of Israel's willingness to permit periodic visits to Dimona.

/4/See Document 258.

"I regret having to add to your burdens so soon after your assumption of office, but I feel the crucial importance of this problem necessitates my taking up with you at this early date certain further considerations, arising out of Mr. Ben-Gurion's May 27 letter, as to the nature and scheduling of such visits.

"I am sure you will agree that these visits should be as nearly as possible in accord with international standards, thereby resolving all doubts as to the peaceful intent of the Dimona project. [3-1/2 lines of source text not declassified]

"Therefore, I asked our scientists to review the alternative schedules of visits we and you had proposed. If Israel's purposes are to be clear beyond reasonable doubt, I believe that the schedule which would best serve our common purposes would be a visit early this summer, another visit in June 1964, and thereafter at intervals of six months. I am sure that such a schedule should not cause you any more difficulty than that which Mr. Ben-Gurion proposed in his May 27 letter. It would be essential, and I understand that Mr. Ben-Gurion's letter was in accord with this, that our scientists have access to all areas of the Dimona site and to any related part of the complex, such as fuel fabrication facilities or plutonium separation plant, and that sufficient time be allotted for a thorough examination.

"Knowing that you fully appreciate the truly vital significance of this matter to the future well-being of Israel, to the United States, and internationally, I am sure our carefully considered request will have your most sympathetic attention.

"Sincerely,

"John F. Kennedy"

300. Memorandum From Robert W. Komer of the National Security Council Staff to President Kennedy/1/

Washington, July 23, 1963.

In any case, Israel will not give us nuclear promises unless we either: (1) literally force them to back down; or (2) pay a price. So we ought to look at the minimum we may be able to get away with, while still limiting risk of strong Arab reaction and Soviet response. In fact, such a price may even be necessary to permit us to continue a flexible Arab policy without such constant Israeli harassment as to make the domestic cost of such a policy too high. What are the possible options:

A. It's just possible that, if we could trade some form of security assurance for Israeli nuclear self-denial

[North Beach Person]

Deleted, not worth the bandwidth.

[Snowball7]

Originally Posted by Snowball7

I don't see Vietnam elevating to the same level as it did.
Sadly, that's about the only difference I think would have lasted.
His efforts to shut down the Israeli nuclear programme and clamp down
on the Federal Reserve would have likely been unsustained, that is, unless
his brother Bobby succeeded him.
This is why they had to take out both.

confirmed. valid.

[kanhawk]

Originally Posted by Snowball7

Was JFK going to pull out of Vietnam?
Yes. He had a plan to do just that, as University of Texas professor Jamie Galbraith demonstrates in this recent piece for The Nation.

I believe there may have been a plan to de-escalate the war along with many other plans. But military planners sit around and make up plans for all sorts of contingencies. That's what planners in the Pentagon and State Dept. do. They make plans.
Up until the time he died Kennedy was escalating the war. That isn't speculation, it's fact. Was he some clueless bystander in the coup that deposed President Diem a few weeks before Kennedy died? Seems he was hip deep in everything going on there.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by kanhawk

I believe there may have been a plan to de-escalate the war along with many other plans. But military planners sit around and make up plans for all sorts of contingencies. That's what planners in the Pentagon and State Dept. do. They make plans.
Up until the time he died Kennedy was escalating the war. That isn't speculation, it's fact. Was he some clueless bystander in the coup that deposed President Diem a few weeks before Kennedy died? Seems he was hip deep in everything going on there.

The President doesn't have absolute power. Not only Congress and advisers, along with others, but special interests play a huge part. From what I've read he did not know about that coup and was disappointed to learn of it.

His military advisers were telling him to escalate the war but it wasn't what he wanted. He didn't dare make major changes until after he was re-elected.