How would the world be different if Rome never fell? (ancient, Romans)
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While not a history major, I am a history buff, and enjoy learning about and watching history programs when I can.
What fascinates me the most is how advanced of a civilization the Romans really had over 2,000 years ago. Compared to the rest of the world they were Gods. They could construct engineering feats that no one else could. After their fall it took Europe almost an entire millennium to get back to where they were prior to the fall of Rome.
With as advanced as the Romans were, let's be hypothetical and suggest that their empire never fell, and that they never divided into east and west, but stayed one unified empire. Just how would the world be different today?
It's a lot to think about. I mean, on the one hand, maybe most of our technologies of today would have been discovered 100 years prior? Or perhaps having never fallen off of the wagon of Roman civilization we would have carved a new path into technological exploration and we would have things today that our current selves never would have dreamed of.
Or perhaps, the fall from grace that the Romans experienced charted us on a new path, to advance even faster.
So, what's your take on how the world and technology would be different today had the Romans never fallen?
There was only one scientific revolution and only one industrial one, and they both occurred in the same society - one that would never have existed without the fall of Rome.
Expect the world to be on about a 16th Century level.
There was only one scientific revolution and only one industrial one, and they both occurred in the same society - one that would never have existed without the fall of Rome.
Expect the world to be on about a 16th Century level.
16th century Europe was only slightly more advanced than 3rd century Rome. If there was not an entire millennium of lost knowledge, and entire continent of people trying to catch up to the tech and civil ways they had lost, how can we know? Europe lost almost an entire millennium on technological advances.
I just think it interesting to think about.
Another point, in the early 6th century, Justinian of the Byzantine Empire started a campaign to recapture the western half of the old Roman Empire and return it under their control. Throughout his conguqests in Italy, he destroyed most of Italy's remaining cities, infrastructure, and agriculture, further deepening the dark ages that ensued. I wonder how much better Italy may have been throughout the dark ages had Justinian never come through and destroyed their cities.
With as advanced as the Romans were, let's be hypothetical and suggest that their empire never fell, and that they never divided into east and west, but stayed one unified empire. Just how would the world be different today?
They neverfell.. question answered. As we speak rome is still there.. and as we speak there is a alternate reality out there.. where they "didn't fall".. and the year is 2014 stop thinking about it.. just "go there" if your curious..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment
It's a lot to think about. I mean, on the one hand, maybe most of our technologies of today would have been discovered 100 years prior? Or perhaps having never fallen off of the wagon of Roman civilization we would have carved a new path into technological exploration and we would have things today that our current selves never would have dreamed of.
Yah, yah.. that all happened..
I find such excersizes boring.. sure they used to excite me.. like you.. but today.. nah, blah
Personally, I'd rather go to jurrassic park.. than play around with it in my consciousness...
In some realities.. the roman empire lasted until the 16th century..
I think given your weird excitement about this..
you should just watch Spartacus.. man.. I miss the days of sex slaves and orgies!
In some realities.. the roman empire lasted until the 16th century..
Well, in our reality the Roman Empire did last into the 15th century, so you are not far off. The Byzantines didn't fully collapse until the 1470's, a very long reign.
I appreciate you poking fun at the question, trying to lighten it up, and the prospect of alternate realities also fascinates me. Not quite sure how to wrap my head around that one, but I do enjoy thinking about it.
Well, in our reality the Roman Empire did last into the 15th century, so you are not far off. The Byzantines didn't fully collapse until the 1470's, a very long reign.
I appreciate you poking fun at the question, trying to lighten it up, and the prospect of alternate realities also fascinates me. Not quite sure how to wrap my head around that one, but I do enjoy thinking about it.
This is true, but in our reality only the Eastern half retained the culture. The Bysentine Empire had enough on its plate later to be interested in the former western half. There, after a succession of invasions Roman culture became the ruins you pilfered from except for the documents preserved in monestaries.
But, despite seveal millenia of desperate poverty and suffering and war, in the end the things which the ancients had done at their peak were rediscovered, and the rest left in the past. Thus, we don't have gladiators out in the square for only one to live, and other bits of incredable cruelty which was also part of their civilization. We have out own varieties, of course.
In the east the empire became very overtaxed by the cost of surviving and fighting off their enemies, and at one point Justinian nearly was eliminated by the populace or sent into exile. But it did preserve knowledge which otherwise might have been lost.
One of the most amusing answers to the question of what a 20th Century Roman Empire would look like was provided by Gene Roddenberry and one of his writers in the Star Trek (original series) called "Bread and Circuses". Where the crew of the Enterprise in responding to a distress call comes across a humoid civilization in which there Rome had never fallen and their Rome resembled modern Los Angeles with Freeways, heavy traffic, smog, suburban sprawl and a giant Colusseum. They drove cars like the powerful Jupiter 7 and watched gladiatorial combat on the Imperial Broadcasting Company. Slavery had evolved into a paternal organisation with guarrenteed medical care and a old age pension. This Rome also had religious dissidents who worshipped a nearly forgotten historical figure who was crucified by authorities nearly 2000 years prior whom they called the son of GOD. Roddenberry was obviously aware that some of us in America today believe that our Founding Fathers used Republican Rome as a guide to create a New Rome in the New World.
One of the most amusing answers to the question of what a 20th Century Roman Empire would look like was provided by Gene Roddenberry and one of his writers in the Star Trek (original series) called "Bread and Circuses". Where the crew of the Enterprise in responding to a distress call comes across a humoid civilization in which there Rome had never fallen and their Rome resembled modern Los Angeles with Freeways, heavy traffic, smog, suburban sprawl and a giant Colusseum. They drove cars like the powerful Jupiter 7 and watched gladiatorial combat on the Imperial Broadcasting Company. Slavery had evolved into a paternal organisation with guarrenteed medical care and a old age pension. This Rome also had religious dissidents who worshipped a nearly forgotten historical figure who was crucified by authorities nearly 2000 years prior whom they called the son of GOD. Roddenberry was obviously aware that some of us in America today believe that our Founding Fathers used Republican Rome as a guide to create a New Rome in the New World.
hmm.. good point
yah that's right in season 2 and 3 they did a lot of those "what if" shows.. like the mobster ones and more
16th century Europe was only slightly more advanced than 3rd century Rome. If there was not an entire millennium of lost knowledge, and entire continent of people trying to catch up to the tech and civil ways they had lost, how can we know? Europe lost almost an entire millennium on technological advances.
But what did a millennium of technological advance amount to in pre-industrial times?
How much technology was available to Diocletian in the late 3C or Honorius in the early 5C which wasn't equally available to Julius Caesar? A millennium sounds a long time to us, but until very recently technological progress - whether before, during or after the Roman period - was glacially slow. Only one civilisation, afawk, has known rapid technical progress, and preserving the RE could quite easily have aborted it
Also, of course, only parts of the RE can really be said to have "fallen". Byzantium carried on for many centuries after the WRE went under, while Syria, Egypt, N Africa and Spain weren't noticeably more backward under the Arabs than under Rome. The latter, if anything, advanced faster in some areas like chemistry and astronomy. So it's far from clear if there was any loss of ground except in Gaul, Italy and a few other northern provinces. The lands beyond the Empire, of course, got noticeably more advanced in the years after it fell.
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question answered. As we speak rome is still there.. and as we speak there is a alternate reality out there.. where they "didn't fall".. and the year is 2014 stop thinking about it.. 
alternate realities real.. so welcome to the club! 
they did a lot of those "what if" shows.. like the mobster ones and more 
