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Old 03-04-2014, 07:29 AM
 
28,896 posts, read 53,944,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMeAK View Post
Well, how does it matter? Besides, 1 in 4 Americans doesn't know Earth circles sun, so in comparison with such a disaster, a small grammar flaw can be forgiven. Sorry, just had to say it.
You know, I always love the smug people who bring up that news report. You realize, of course, that in sophisticated, urbane Europe the percentage was even higher, right?
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:42 AM
 
1,830 posts, read 1,342,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
Vietnam's the obvious one.

Although I don't understand why Vietnam doesn't hate the US. One would think they'd be more anti-American than any other country in the world and that they'd hate the US more than Arab and Muslim nations, but they don't. They genuinely like Americans and they want the US military back in their country to protect them from China.
Several years ago, I posed the same question to my local Vietnamese tour guide, as we stood amongst the ruins of the Imperial Palace of Hue, still pockmarked after all these years by numerous bullet holes from the Tet Offensive. He replied no, that most Vietnamese understood America’s involvement in the war was due to its political leaders, and that most of the American people opposed the war. The past was the past, and the future was where Vietnam needed to focus in order to move forward both as a people and nation. I received essentially the same response from my local tour guide in Hanoi, who had lost relatives to US carpet-bombing, as we stood amongst Ho Chi Minh’s wartime living quarters.

I believe that as a whole, Vietnamese are both pragmatic and forgiving in nature. They/we understand that most Americans are decent people, and Vietnam needs the US in order to recover economically.

It’s interesting that many returning Vietnam War vets were surprised by the lack of animosity from the locals, and that in fact many were quite friendly and conciliatory.

The lessons from Dien Bien Phu...Ho Chi Minh's fruitless plea to Truman…The whole tragedy of the Vietnam War could have been and should have been avoided.

Last edited by mingna; 03-04-2014 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:14 PM
 
1,425 posts, read 1,377,744 times
Reputation: 2601
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
You know, I always love the smug people who bring up that news report. You realize, of course, that in sophisticated, urbane Europe the percentage was even higher, right?
A link, maybe?
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:13 PM
 
2,895 posts, read 5,106,409 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMeAK View Post
A link, maybe?
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind1.../chapter-7.pdf

Table 7-8, page 23.

Strange thread. Sort of pointless, and now OT.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:22 PM
 
Location: KCMO
638 posts, read 617,346 times
Reputation: 532
Why should we apologize for something we had nothing to do with (at least not the people currently in charge). Besides, how would other countries view an apology? I imagine some would consider it weakness.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:40 PM
 
4,721 posts, read 5,291,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMeAK View Post
Well, how does it matter? Besides, 1 in 4 Americans doesn't know Earth circles sun, so in comparison with such a disaster, a small grammar flaw can be forgiven. Sorry, just had to say it.
Thanks for that, even though I know about the solar system. Of course, a flaw can be forgiven. I am just curious to know how many people from other countries are on this Big Bad America bandwagon. Our country has made mistakes, but we are not alone in our lack of perfection. We are better than most, or we would not care when disasters happen around the globe.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:27 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,848 posts, read 21,383,218 times
Reputation: 9263
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Anti-American sentiment, even hatred, is understandable, given our historical misdeeds, over the years, and if we want to heal the wounds, and if were to apologize, ask for forgiveness, which countries would be high on the list and for what reasons? And do you think it would do any good? Some of these countries, the younger residents, probably don't even realize what we did to them, years ago, and it could backfire, generating more hatred towards us.

What do you think?
There is no point, no matter what America does people will always complain.

Nobody cares when we do something good, everyone ignores all the aid we sent to the Philippines
or go way back.... Marshal plan? people in Europe seem to hate to admit it even happened.
They just don't care about the positive things.

So basically screw the rest of the world and we don't care to ask for forgiveness.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:25 AM
 
Location: mainland but born oahu
6,657 posts, read 7,699,748 times
Reputation: 3136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moboy32 View Post
Why should we apologize for something we had nothing to do with (at least not the people currently in charge). Besides, how would other countries view an apology? I imagine some would consider it weakness.
I understand the logic, but really even today many suffer from the acts of past generations. For example there are still native american elders who won't speak there languages because they remember getting beatten in goverment indian schools for speaking it (sound familiar,Hawaiians?) they have terrible P.T.S.D. Further we have tribes who almost have totally lost or lost their languages and cultures.

What makes me angry about this statement "Why should we apologize for something we had nothing to do with (at least not the people currently in charge)." I would generally agree, IF THE BEHAVIOR has stopped but It hasnt. Today its Iraq and Afganistan. To me this statement is just another rationalization to avoid changing the status quo and taking responsibility.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:45 AM
 
Location: mainland but born oahu
6,657 posts, read 7,699,748 times
Reputation: 3136
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
There is no point, no matter what America does people will always complain.

Nobody cares when we do something good, everyone ignores all the aid we sent to the Philippines
or go way back.... Marshal plan? people in Europe seem to hate to admit it even happened.
They just don't care about the positive things.

So basically screw the rest of the world and we don't care to ask for forgiveness.
This one kind of reminds me of the "He did it, so its ok for me excuse or rationalizations"

When talking about the Hawaiian sovereignty movement awhile back i said if it was found that if the U.S took Hawai'i illegally that the right thing to do is return her to her people? One response i will never forget was "Well the hawaiians conquered hawaii when they came over so should they be held accountable?" If not them we shouldn't. I basically said "what does the actions of others have to do with us in what is right, do whats right let others be responsible for there actions."
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:53 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,068 posts, read 28,783,425 times
Reputation: 32337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingna View Post
Several years ago, I posed the same question to my local Vietnamese tour guide, as we stood amongst the ruins of the Imperial Palace of Hue, still pockmarked after all these years by numerous bullet holes from the Tet Offensive. He replied no, that most Vietnamese understood America’s involvement in the war was due to its political leaders, and that most of the American people opposed the war. The past was the past, and the future was where Vietnam needed to focus in order to move forward both as a people and nation. I received essentially the same response from my local tour guide in Hanoi, who had lost relatives to US carpet-bombing, as we stood amongst Ho Chi Minh’s wartime living quarters.

I believe that as a whole, Vietnamese are both pragmatic and forgiving in nature. They/we understand that most Americans are decent people, and Vietnam needs the US in order to recover economically.

It’s interesting that many returning Vietnam War vets were surprised by the lack of animosity from the locals, and that in fact many were quite friendly and conciliatory.

The lessons from Dien Bien Phu...Ho Chi Minh's fruitless plea to Truman…The whole tragedy of the Vietnam War could have been and should have been avoided.
When I first went to Central America, riding the chicken buses everywhere, traveling alone, I was rather fearful/nervous, particularly traveling thru El Salvador, Nicaragua and Guatemala, that I might run across someone with a keen sense of history, an elephantine memory, with lots of pent-up anger towards Americans, any American, and that I might be attacked and be a sacrificial lamb, but it astounded me how friendly, accepting they were. I would almost call it all a mystery! Many times, I just wanted to take someone aside and say: I'm so sorry for what we did to you, in the past!

Let's call it projection, for if I had been one of them, seeing an American, traveling alone, I don't think I would have let an opportunity like this pass me by.

Perhaps it's the same down there, they're intelligent enough to realize it's our leaders/the CIA that were to blame, and I, blameless.

Now, I don't think I'd be brave enough to ride the local buses in Iraq!
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