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Old 03-02-2014, 04:16 PM
 
51 posts, read 47,868 times
Reputation: 36

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
First of all I am not upset. I am merely being assertive. I merely do not want the mods to over-react as I thought they did in another thread. If you think I am a shrinking violet (LOL), you obviously have no clue and did not fully read my prior posts. Iam very adamant and happy to disagree with you on these issues.

Before I disagree with much of this post, I truly thank you for your service to this country. At least I can disagree with a little more respect than if you never served.

However, many of your military comrades would disagree strongly about your views on war. First of all, there was our bombing and napalm attacks as well as ground efforts and shooting unarmed people in ditches as well at My Lai. The idea the North Vietnamese did much of the killing is laughable. We did just as much and probably more later in the war.

It is real sad you were OK with us bombing Vietnam into the Stone Age and then we still got our precious tungsten for the big business interests.

As for Ukraine, anyone that says we should go there after we have just got done in Iraq after a decade and are still not out of Afghanistan is just advocating a reckless policy. Sir, how many more military cemeteries and VA hospitals and rehab centers do we have to build before we get some common sense. There has to be a country in that hemisphere to take our place as an enforcer. We cannot be the policeman of the world forever. You "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality is unfortunate. It sounds like you did not serve in combat and see the real horrors of war, but your service is appreciated nonetheless. What if we go into Ukraine and lose. They have severe winters there, too,so there are additional complicated logistics regarding weather. UKraine is not our problem to solve militarily. Other nations closer to the action will have to make decisions for a change, won't they?

BTW, your constant use of the head slap icon tells us you prefer intimidation/ridicule tactics (a big FAIL btw...it does not deter me) rather than argument and logic. That is sad and ineffective.

As for Saddam, we got him, but the alternative is proving no better and we killed a lot of innocent Iraquis in the process while thinking only of Dick Cheney's Halliburton interests for too long despite their boondoggles. I have a little more respect for you than Cheney who dodged service while cheerleading for every war. You are so seriously outnumbered about supporting this nearly decade long war I don't know where to begin. It was done because George Bush was angry at a comment Hussein made about his Dad. Cheney offered further encouragement. It was not done to preserve our way of life, freedom or anything like that. Only sheep would fall for that. Please! I feel sorry for, but also thankful for the military people that were used as political pawns and unnecessarily put in harm's way. We caused way too much collateral damage in that war. The "peaceful options" you talk about was a political sideshow to make the war more palatable and acceptable.

Your mindless support of all these wars insults OUR intelligence and especially insults the families that have to pick up the pieces after a serviceman returns with PTSD or missing limbs. Back at you!

We need to stop beating our chests like we rule the world and intervening militarily everywhere. It has caused far more problems than it has solved.

There is always a conflict somewhere in the world. If you had your way, our troops woudl ALWAYS be fighting somewhere. Well, that is a mediocre (too polite, but you served) and antiquated way to think and frankly NOT acceptable to those of us that are tired of all the wasted lives, and senseless waste of money.

We have infrastructure, roads, and too many things that have to be done here in the USA. It is you rview that is truly un-American in that we are supposed to yet again neglect needs here at home to satisfy a bloodthirsty urge to fight another unnecessary war. Back at you! Makes no sense at all.

True patriots oppose senseless wars!


so basically you are saying ALL WARS against aggression are senseless wars.......got it!......don't do anything.


you are from the crowd that blames America for all the problems in the world....we caused it. We are a bunch of war mongers imperialists and we do it because we like wars and to exploit other countries......got it!
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,408 posts, read 6,165,329 times
Reputation: 8430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewill2014 View Post
again you are talking non-sense, with all due respect. When has the U.S. use military action without using all options for a peaceful resolution?

you mention Vietnam a lot, what was your solution to let the Communism aggression take all over Asia and enslaved millions of people into that cruel system?....to let North Korea and North Vietnam invade the South and kill millions of people so you can have your peace and live under liberty at home?



would you rather have the U.S. not fight the Cold War and just let the Soviets and communism expand by military force around the world?.....please explain how would you would have fought the Cold War? be like the SWISS, do nothing?
Sir again, we have needs HERE in the USA that could have been better solved had we not gone into many of these places and especially Vietnam. You are not helping matters when you want all this money going to war instead of meeting the needs of patriotic hard working Americans. As I recall, the enemy still took over in Vietnam despite our decade long war.

How much longer would you have stayed and how many more American lives would be acceptable to lose in Vietnam and how much more would you be willing to spend there? Until you answer that, please do not attack people just because they want peace. Peace is the patriotic view IMO.

You should also read up on a marine by the name of Smedley Butler who criticized war even more so when his career was over. He was highly decorated and said "War is a racket.". You need to see the light. A lot of military veterans quote him.

Finally, I am supportive of our food aid efforts, the Peace Corp, and anti-AIDS efforts in Africa. I do compliment our country on these things.

Nothing should be MORE AMERICAN than supporting peace and opposing senseless wars. Save your silly head slaps for someone else. They do not deter me. Thanks again for your military service.

Last edited by chessgeek; 03-02-2014 at 04:27 PM.. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:27 PM
 
51 posts, read 47,868 times
Reputation: 36
again, tell me when has the U.S. used military action without looking for peaceful solutions first?

I think you are taking a lot of things for granted.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,408 posts, read 6,165,329 times
Reputation: 8430
The Swiss are not tending to broken families trying to deal with the loss of loved ones to war. They are not dealing with family members with missing limbs from war. They might have the occasional skiing accident there. The monetary output in the US is staggering just for all that when severely injured troops return home. I would never deny them that. However, when do you start thinking of PREVENTING this instead of going into this blind rage at those that want peace and other ways of thinking and wanting war at every turn. A CIVILIZED populace learns from its mistakes, because they CARE about the country and their fellow Americans. Going to war every time something happens elsewhere is not the answer.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,408 posts, read 6,165,329 times
Reputation: 8430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewill2014 View Post
again, tell me when has the U.S. used military action without looking for peaceful solutions first?

I think you are taking a lot of things for granted.
We should go to war primarily to defend this country. Going to war to police the world is eventually futile and too many things go neglected here at home in the process or a large deficit occurs.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,408 posts, read 6,165,329 times
Reputation: 8430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewill2014 View Post
so basically you are saying ALL WARS against aggression are senseless wars.......got it!......don't do anything.


you are from the crowd that blames America for all the problems in the world....we caused it. We are a bunch of war mongers imperialists and we do it because we like wars and to exploit other countries......got it!
No, I am blaming the politiicians who use our military people as pawns so they can prop themselves and special interests up. The vast majority of Americans get praise from me. America is its people. You are now reduced to using accusatory rhetoric which I just debunked as nonsense. I never said America is responsible for all the world's problems. I just said we can't police the world militarily and be in a constant war state. I love America and it people...the politicians that support these senseless wars are another story. Nice try.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,408 posts, read 6,165,329 times
Reputation: 8430
You really need to put a bigger value on things at home like our education system, infrastructure, preserving Social Security, etc instead of the war games mentality. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but you were equally harsh, right? I can dish it as well as take it. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I prefer peace and you would rather have war. Got it? We should defend this country. If Switzerland ever got attacked, they are on their own. They can call a draft and ask neighbors for assistance. That is my view.

Let's end by agreeing to disagree. We will never agree on this and that is each of our rights under the First Amendment.

To ensure no hard feelings sir, I sincerely thank you a third time for your military service!

Last edited by chessgeek; 03-02-2014 at 04:47 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:49 PM
 
352 posts, read 498,395 times
Reputation: 446
Japan
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,408 posts, read 6,165,329 times
Reputation: 8430
My message to all who prefer peace is never let anyone use sleazy shaming tactics (as you saw Freewill2014 try and fail to do) aimed at you like saying you don't like America and insinuating that there is something wrong with not wanting more dead and severely injured Americans. Some people learned zero from Vietnam. That is not my problem. It is theirs. They should have learned something. I will let others discuss further. Thanks again for a good topic, OP!

One last time: A true patriot opposes senseless wars!

Last edited by chessgeek; 03-02-2014 at 05:04 PM.. Reason: duplicated word
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,408 posts, read 6,165,329 times
Reputation: 8430
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Arbenz? Do you know what the phrase banana republic means? By "investors" you of course mean a handful of large corporate landholders. Corporate multi-nationals, as it happened.

There's no reason to confuse the interests of the average American with the particular profit interests of multinational corporations, and yet, that's what some people do. This goes back to Smedley Butler and earlier. I don't feel any need to justify the US "intervention" in Guatemala as an American, since I don't think it benefited average Americans. And based on the decades of civil war that followed, it sure didn't benefit Guatemalans themselves.

That's a perfect example of private interests hijacking parts of the US government to use as their own private profit-making tools. That's exactly the sort of thing we should study so that future instances can be identified and avoided.

There's no reason for "Americans" as a whole to carry the water for United Fruit Company. Why should we? Why should we go around scrounging for justifications for US government mistakes, and pretending they weren't mistakes? Sometimes the policies undertaken by the US government are bad. I have no need to reflexively stand up and defend what the government did, just because the government did it.
Fantastic post! The last paragraph is especially great and more people need to wake up and realize it! It is our country and disagreeing with a policy is our right and frankly our obligation as citizens if they are wrong.
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