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Old 03-07-2014, 03:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
What else I am curious about is, why is there not a race or ethnicity in between China, and Europe that look like a mix between mongoloid and Caucasian like Brian Ching (houston dynamo), Jason Momoa, or Kristin Kreuk?
Why there should be such race?
People that you've mentioned ( I had to look them up) came as the examples of the finest result of such mixing - it doesn't mean that all the results would be of the same nature. Russians have such examples too, starting from the model Irina Sheik, who is the result of such mix between Asians and Europeans, but that doesn't mean that the next such mixture would bring the same kind of result.



Quote:
It seems like the Kazakhs, Mansi, khanti and Kirghiz are exclusively mongoloid, while their close neighbors the Tajiks, Turkmen, and Uzbeks are strictly caucasian.
No, while Kazakhs Mansi Khanti and Kirgiz are exclusively Mongoloid, Tajiks and Uzbeks are Mongoloid mixed with Iranic people. ( Don't remember off top what Turkmen are, but most likely the same.)
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:37 PM
 
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People...please be accurate! Mongoloid refers to a person afflicted with Down's Syndrome. Mongols are people from Mongolia.
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talloolla View Post
People...please be accurate! Mongoloid refers to a person afflicted with Down's Syndrome.
Never heard of it, sorry


Quote:
Mongols are people from Mongolia.
All right, so how would you like to identify this whole group/branch of people, since calling them just "Asians" wouldn't do a good job, because for whatever reason then Indians ( Hindy and the rest from India) become included into this definition.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Why there should be such race?
People that you've mentioned ( I had to look them up) came as the examples of the finest result of such mixing - it doesn't mean that all the results would be of the same nature. Russians have such examples too, starting from the model Irina Sheik, who is the result of such mix between Asians and Europeans, but that doesn't mean that the next such mixture would bring the same kind of result.





No, while Kazakhs Mansi Khanti and Kirgiz are exclusively Mongoloid, Tajiks and Uzbeks are Mongoloid mixed with Iranic people. ( Don't remember off top what Turkmen are, but most likely the same.)
I have stated that I understand the names I listed as being celebrities, and was trying to indicate that I know, not all mixed people will look that good.

I think there should be a tribe or ethnic group that appears to be a mix because if there is no boundaries, then what is to keep these people from interacting? At some point, and after a few centuries, there should be quite a few children that are of mixed descent, and they would have children enough to form a tribe or two. They also would most likely live in an area in between the slavic lands and the mongoloid nomads further east. Isnt that natural?

I guess I am saying is that if you cross eurasia east to west, west to east, shouldnt you find the most extreme caucasoid features on the far west, and the most extreme mongoloid features on the far east? And then as you move closer to the middle, you will find a gradually blending of the features from either direction until you get to the center where you will find a 50% of each?
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Old 03-08-2014, 09:55 AM
 
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Perhaps this is the kind of thing you're looking for?

Green-eyed Chinese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations

The challenge to your interest in finding such a 'blended tribe' - is that, just because one is on a commercial trade route, doesn't mean the peoples will naturally mix culturally - and form a large enough group of distinctive features- or that, even if one did, the problem with a tribal people in border regions between larger geo political powers is they often get killed in large numbers as they are caught in the middle during wars. See the history of cities along silk road being destroyed from one conflict or another.

Likewise, for the area you inquire, the principle of a gravity model comes into play here as people will align culturally (and linguistically) with those most akin to them and it may hamper blending. I.e. An example would be a group in the middle who 'orient themselves to those (east, west, or south) of major importance to them. One thing to consider in historical perspective, as one goes further back, there was greater strength of alignment culturally and religiously (that's all they knew, or it was a stronger centralizing focus of their lifestyle) which likely kept people from 'blending' in certain arenas of life.

The Balkan countries are an interesting example. Physically and visually I can't tell much of difference from Croat - Serbian - Macedonia and other inhabitants of Balkan peninsula, yet they divide based upon religious and cultural alignments.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
I have stated that I understand the names I listed as being celebrities, and was trying to indicate that I know, not all mixed people will look that good.

I think there should be a tribe or ethnic group that appears to be a mix because if there is no boundaries, then what is to keep these people from interacting? At some point, and after a few centuries, there should be quite a few children that are of mixed descent, and they would have children enough to form a tribe or two. They also would most likely live in an area in between the slavic lands and the mongoloid nomads further east. Isnt that natural?

I guess I am saying is that if you cross eurasia east to west, west to east, shouldnt you find the most extreme caucasoid features on the far west, and the most extreme mongoloid features on the far east? And then as you move closer to the middle, you will find a gradually blending of the features from either direction until you get to the center where you will find a 50% of each?
Uhmm, errr.. no, that's not how it works)))
Because if we follow this logic, then the US ( which is the "melting pot" you know) would have been already one new homogenous race, consisting of one common mix of people of all origins. But it's obviously not a case, and it's even less a case in the "old world."
Even in times of Tatar-Mongol invasion Slavs and Tatars didn't mix; they stayed as two separate groups.

"The term by which this subjection is commonly designated, the Mongol or Tatar "yoke", suggests ideas of terrible oppression, but in reality these nomadic invaders from Mongolia were not such cruel, oppressive taskmasters as is generally supposed.[6] In the first place, they never settled in the country, and they had little direct dealing with the inhabitants.In accordance with the admonitions of Genghis to his children and grandchildren, they retained their pastoral mode of life, so that the subject races, agriculturists, and dwellers in towns, were not disturbed in their ordinary avocations."

Mongol invasion of Rus' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And in later times, when the cultural/racial difference remained pronounced, it was the same situation.
The only period in history that produced the biggest ( although still limited) number of intermarriages was probably the Soviet period.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Colorado
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Just a heads up that the term "Mongoloid" is outdated and derogatory: "The term mongoloid is now considered derogatory by most anthropologists due to its association with disputed typological models of racial classification."

There certainly are groups of people who have mixed features. This can be widely found in the area of Central Asia, including Russia, and far western China. Not everyone will look like the examples listed (Brian Ching). Sometimes one child looks more Asian, and the other more European. Additionally, the "white" European Russians and other Slavs also display features which clearly show past mixing with "Mongoloid" populations.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
All right, so how would you like to identify this whole group/branch of people, since calling them just "Asians" wouldn't do a good job, because for whatever reason then Indians ( Hindy and the rest from India) become included into this definition.
Personally, I just take the advice of the physical anthropologist C. Loring Brace and use geographic terms such as East/ern Asian & South/ern Asian.
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Just a heads up that the term "Mongoloid" is outdated and derogatory: "The term mongoloid is now considered derogatory by most anthropologists due to its association with disputed typological models of racial classification."
Not in Russia, where people of mongoloid race lived side by side with Russians, and were an inseparable part of Russian history.
This term still stands as much as "Europid" and is used for example by Russian Wikipedia.

Монголоидная раса — Википедия


Quote:
There certainly are groups of people who have mixed features. This can be widely found in the area of Central Asia, including Russia, and far western China. Not everyone will look like the examples listed (Brian Ching). Sometimes one child looks more Asian, and the other more European. Additionally, the "white" European Russians and other Slavs also display features which clearly show past mixing with "Mongoloid" populations.
Central Asia is one of the most ancient places on Earth ( same with Caucasus.) There were numerous civilizations/tribes there that came and went, so obviously the population there can't look homogenous.
As for Russians themselves - they constitute a group of "mixed" origin most likley not because they were mixed so much with currently known Asian population, ( although this should include certain percentage,) but because apparently part of what's known now as "Russians" included the leftovers of some more ancient tribes - not just the inhabitants of the most Western part of the country.
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Personally, I just take the advice of the physical anthropologist C. Loring Brace and use geographic terms such as East/ern Asian & South/ern Asian.
This definition wouldn't serve the purpose for common usage in Russia I think, because a lot of Asian people falling under this category are simply irrelevant for Russians in their daily lives.
When Russians think "Asians" - they think first of all in terms of their immediate neighbors - Central Asians, ( which are really older civilizations,) but when they hear "mongols" - that is usually associated with nomads and history of Tatar-Mongols.
And I don't think that they usually even make any particular connection between the native people of Siberia and "Asians," in spite of the fact that it's the very same "mongoloid" type. The culture of Native people of Siberia is quite different from the "Central Asians," and that what counts in this case.
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