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Old 03-02-2014, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,260,290 times
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I want to invite some discussion on an individual who found his way into a unique place in the American societal tapestry of the Post-World War II era -- James Riddle (his actual middle name) Hoffa.

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Originally Posted by sirron View Post
It is interesting how past events can mold one into a revolutionary -- be it good or bad. I am reminded of reading in a biography about Al Capone how as a child, his shoe shine kit was stolen, money and all, and he was beat up by bullies. He vowed from that day on that no one would ever bully or steal from him again.
And too, young Jimmy Hoffa lost his dad in a work-related accident when Jimmy was just 11 or 12 years old. This prompted him to fight for workers' rights with a passion that became his legacy.
For the records, Hoffa was a long way from a "city-boy; born and bred"; He was born in Brazil, Indiana. While imprisoned at Lewisburg, in Central Pennsylvania many years later, he often claimed "Pennsylvania Dutch" extraction, but the surname "Hoxha" is more common in the Balkans, and the Anglo-Americanization of family names was common in that day.

His family moved to Detroit a few years after his birth, likely driven by the same economic pressures that removed and concentrated many small farm holdings and the menial existence they sustained; the attempt to start a shoe-shining operation, whether fictionally "embellished" or not, probably depicts a street-level version of the "crony capitalism" that naturally emerges when the territory is "staked out" and under the control of those with access to "muscle and protection".

Hoffa's first documentable experience with labor organization was an attempt to unionize dock workers at the emerging Kroger company's warehouse in Detroit and it seems likely that his first exposure to the grittier workings of the labor struggle came about there.

Most of what came later is very lightly-documented, and open to a great deal of speculation. The history of labor organization in America is one of constant in-fighting, between "craft" unions in the tradition of Samuel Gompers, industry-based unions led by the likes of Walter Reuther, and more prone to left-of-center ideology, and "independent" unions susceptible to influence by racketeers.

It has been over 38 years since Jimmy Hoffa left his home for a meeting at a suburban Detroit restaurant which he never made, and many more shadowy tales have since emerged regarding those who both succeeded and rivaled him. every once in a while, another piece of the puzzle turns up, but we're unlikely to ever learn the whole story.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-02-2014 at 11:59 PM..
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,288,771 times
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I didn't know that Jimmy Hoffa started out with a grocery warehouse. Today Jimmy Hoffa Jr. carries on, and a lot of Teamsters are grocery warehouse workers are teamsters, but they are being squeezed and it seems that there is nothing the union can do about it. A bunch of my friends are grocery warehouse workers. Only 10-15 years ago, it was a sweet gig, but now there is competition from WalMart and Amazon, and they are being pushed for concessions, and pushed to exhaustion in the name of productivity. And no help forthcoming from Pres. Obama for them.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:13 AM
 
7,072 posts, read 9,553,550 times
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Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I didn't know that Jimmy Hoffa started out with a grocery warehouse. Today Jimmy Hoffa Jr. carries on, and a lot of Teamsters are grocery warehouse workers are teamsters, but they are being squeezed and it seems that there is nothing the union can do about it. A bunch of my friends are grocery warehouse workers. Only 10-15 years ago, it was a sweet gig, but now there is competition from WalMart and Amazon, and they are being pushed for concessions, and pushed to exhaustion in the name of productivity. And no help forthcoming from Pres. Obama for them.

Why don't they get a new, higher-paying job on their own like most motivated people do?
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:45 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,968,909 times
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Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
Why don't they get a new, higher-paying job on their own like most motivated people do?
Ah there are only so many higher paying jobs to go to and not everyone can go there. Locally there are plenty of older people working at grocery stores. Someone's got to do it.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,260,290 times
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Which leads back to the point in the original post: Hoffa was a one-time "phenom" in the history of labor organization; a man who, with some clandestine muscle, wielded enormous power, but only so long as the United States could sustain its position as the only economic super-power on the globe.

The concept of a "living wage" for everyone in the labor force is unworkable; not everyone has the responsibilities of a young, growing family, and the role of "sole breadwinner" has diminished as women have increased their rate of participation in the labor force (and likely proven more suitable to many roles in a post-industrial society).

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-05-2014 at 02:17 AM..
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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I think Jimmy Hoffa led a great fight for business and trucking employees, and the Teamsters' 1970 wildcat strike raised the minimum wage and showed that without the blue-collar workers, America shuts down. But, since Reagan deregulated trucking and we all remember him firing the airport traffic controllers, I think the government is so involved with micromanaging everything, it will be hard for anyone to stand up against injustice again.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by ESFP View Post
I think Jimmy Hoffa led a great fight for business and trucking employees, and the Teamsters' 1970 wildcat strike raised the minimum wage and showed that without the blue-collar workers, America shuts down. But, since Reagan deregulated trucking and we all remember him firing the airport traffic controllers, I think the government is so involved with micromanaging everything, it will be hard for anyone to stand up against injustice again.
Carter deregulated trucking, not Reagan.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,260,290 times
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I worked in the Central Dispatch office of a major motor carrier (Jones Motor - an eventual casualty of deregulation) and can attest that the trucking "strikes" of 1965-1973 were about as organized as a Chinese fire drill. The strikes of 1967 were aimed at only one segment of the industry (steel haulers), and the 1973 strike consisted of little more than bands of roving thugs raising hell at terminals.

The fuel-driven and CB radio-orchestrated highway blockades of 1973-75 were a different matter entirely, in large part because the participants weren't centrally organized, but represented a large part of the "highway culture" -- they had "muscle", but didn't always know how to use it.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:32 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,891 posts, read 32,193,454 times
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Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
Why don't they get a new, higher-paying job on their own like most motivated people do?

Because they are not qualified to work elsewhere. Why doesn't greedy Walmart pay them a living wage?

And why doesn't Walmart make their crap in the USA? It would provide more jobs for Americans, rather than Chinese.

Why do you identify with people in the 1% of wealth? Why do you have no compassion for workers or fellow Americans?

These are better questions.
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Old 03-06-2014, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,260,290 times
Reputation: 20827
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Because they are not qualified to work elsewhere. Why doesn't greedy Walmart pay them a living wage?

And why doesn't Walmart make their crap in the USA? It would provide more jobs for Americans, rather than Chinese.

Why do you identify with people in the 1% of wealth? Why do you have no compassion for workers or fellow Americans?

These are better questions.
It is so-called "progressive" (who no longer have the honesty to use the word "liberal") people, who refuse to understand that both the levels of wages and the distribution of wealth are determined by supply and demand. Politicians can corrupt the process -- and they do. Consider both the refusal to return the societal safety net to local (where the true slackers can be weeded out) rather than Federal control, and the Democratic Party's incestuous relationship with both the frivolous-lawsuit mills and the overpaid public-sector unions, who are both exempted from market forces, and allowed to use the public schools (to cite the worst example) as a bully pulpit for their nonsense.

Free trade has simply broken up the monopoly which American unions, whether controlled by racketeers like Hoffa or warmed-over socialists such as Reuther, enjoyed while the rest of the free world was in ruins and American heavy industry was the only game in town -- no more. We won't really lose any ground while the rest of the world catches up, but our own gains will be small in comparison -- it's like getting into an elevator on the 98th floor, while the Third World is on the ground floor -- just starting out.

Or maybe you're going to suggest protective tariffs?? Sorry, we tried that in 1930 (Smoot-Hawley) when Wall Street was crushed, but Main Street still in fairly good shape. That led to the REAL (1931-35) Great Depression. And while we're at it, let's not forget that tariffs, mercantilism, and "captive markets" were the root cause of the First World War -- and its bloodier second act.

The wealth which so many of our young people have been conditioned to resent and envy is, for the most part, not directly in the hands of the "one percent"; it is represented by the enterprises they built, and not subject to tax until they either die or remove it for their personal use via dividends or stock sales. Most of it will end up under the control of foundations or other institutions serving the public in a generation or two. Do you honestly believe that an army of bureaucrats -- not subject to the discipline of the market, but fully aware that a bigger "problem" for them to "solve" means a bigger staff and a bigger appropriation -- could serve our needs more efficiently? Remember that Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos (Amazon) and Page and Brin (Google) are all self-made. They got where they are by producing something people actually wanted to buy, without big Brother's / Sister's "help".

There are plenty of good-paying jobs out there; we still need transportation and distribution, the infrastructure to serve those functions, plus health care and a larger share of newer, higher-tech manufacturing than most people recognize. But most of those jobs involve irregular hours, not-always-comfortable working conditions, not-very-pleasant people "in your face", or just plain tedium and the simple realization that after one finishes his/her education, it's mostly a slow ride downhill -- not attractive to a generation swaddled in fantasy via the electronic media for the past twenty years.

It's time to identify and remove the real freeloaders -- the "business as usual" drones from both major parties. Hoffa was a mercenary who used both unlawful coercive tactics to get his way, and clandestine deals to channel the fruits of his efforts to corrupt, gangster-ridden, hedonistic enterprises in places like Las Vegas. But at least he was a man of action and not a pandering demagogue.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-06-2014 at 04:26 AM..
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