Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 03-21-2014, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 20,856,158 times
Reputation: 32530

Advertisements

Mod cut: Orphaned (quoted post has been deleted).

I do not excuse the Unionist extremists - in fact it's a toss-up whether they or the IRA were more pig-headed. No wonder there were "troubles" with a capital T. A tragedy all around.

However, did you ever stop to think that it's now 2014? Reforms have been made and accommodations have been arrived at. Mod cut: off topic.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-23-2014 at 10:43 PM..

 
Old 03-21-2014, 08:40 PM
 
Location: SoCal & Mid-TN
2,325 posts, read 2,641,593 times
Reputation: 2874
Mod cut: Orphaned (quoted post has been deleted).

I've studied Irish history and agree with you completely. Thatcher was a heartless woman (so much like Ronald Reagan, her good buddy). The list of British crimes again the Irish people goes back hundreds of years. The Troubles could have been prevented if Britain had simply done what was right. Great song here honoring those who starved in the H block:

Roll Of Honour With On Screen Lyrics - YouTube

I was lucky enough to meet Gerry Adams some years ago.

Tiocfaidh ár lá

Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-23-2014 at 10:45 PM..
 
Old 03-21-2014, 09:09 PM
 
Location: London
1,068 posts, read 2,016,576 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikett View Post
I've studied Irish history and agree with you completely. Thatcher was a heartless woman (so much like Ronald Reagan, her good buddy). The list of British crimes again the Irish people goes back hundreds of years. The Troubles could have been prevented if Britain had simply done what was right. Great song here honoring those who starved in the H block:

Roll Of Honour With On Screen Lyrics - YouTube

I was lucky enough to meet Gerry Adams some years ago.

Tiocfaidh ár lá
Mod cut: Off topic; Rude.

Nothing was said to counter the serious points I raised I noticed though that's because they can't the oppression of the Irish people has been conceded by the British crown and Government.

Great song and great contribution in fact the Ulster Unionists went on hunger strike but couldn't even last one day. They haven't got half the heart of an Irishman and they even had SAS soldiers conspiring with them as a terrorist squad but the Irish never caved in, they were called the (MRF) and killed unarmed civilians and according to a leading Loyalist conspired to kill innocent civilians in a Belfast pub bombing.

Mod cut: Off topic. Terrorists? Er, the Brits had a terrorist cell themselves. They were funded by millions and yet the resilient Irish held their own. The British intelligence service said in a report that the Loyalists were just racist thugs and that the IRA had given a good fight with the best soldiers the British army had to offer and in the end they bypassed South Armagh in Chinooks. "You'll never beat the Irish, you'll never beat the Irish".

Mod cut: Off topic.

On 4 December 1971, loyalists belonging to the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) detonated a time bomb at the door of McGurk's public house in Belfast. The pub was frequented by members of the Irish Catholic and Irish nationalist community.[12] The explosion caused the building to collapse, killing fifteen Catholic civilians and wounding seventeen more. It was the deadliest attack in Belfast during the Troubles.[13] The book Killing For Britain (2009), written by former UVF member 'John Black', claims that the MRF organized the bombing and helped the bombers get in and out of the area.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Reaction_Force

Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-23-2014 at 07:56 PM..
 
Old 03-21-2014, 09:36 PM
 
Location: London
1,068 posts, read 2,016,576 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Mod cut: Orphaned.

I do not excuse the Unionist extremists - in fact it's a toss-up whether they or the IRA were more pig-headed. No wonder there were "troubles" with a capital T. A tragedy all around.

However, did you ever stop to think that it's now 2014? Reforms have been made and accommodations have been arrived at. Snip
[Snip.]

History speaks for itself, the IRA ceased its border campaign and reached out for peace and it was the Unionists who set off the bombs, burned people from their homes and attacked a legitimate civil rights movement. I'm sure you would have just smiled and waved "thank you very much Guv" when you come home to see your home has been torched down when the Republicans were simply seeking equal rights and peace.

Mod cut: Personal attack.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-23-2014 at 10:47 PM..
 
Old 03-22-2014, 01:29 AM
 
Location: London
1,068 posts, read 2,016,576 times
Reputation: 1023
When Harold Wilson came to power in 1964 the tinder had already been smouldering away. But there was still time to act. The embers had been glowing for decades and the nationalist enclaves it was the determination against hardship and discrimination that kept them alive. The BBC quite clearly states "Although protestants suffered Catholics were the main victims".

I rest my case.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtCPjynI2yI
 
Old 03-22-2014, 02:34 PM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,607,537 times
Reputation: 3869
Mod cut: Orphaned (quoted post has been deleted).

You asked for opinions. Most people are not "partisans" for either side of the NI conflict. The details are not relevant to them, so, the conflict is interpreted through broad impressions.

In the US, after 2001, bombings and similar acts of violence became strongly associated with "terrorism." The prevailing attitude is that people who bomb things are terrorists. Or at the least, zealots/fundamentalists, who are closely related to terrorists in the public imagination.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-23-2014 at 08:02 PM..
 
Old 03-22-2014, 04:19 PM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,607,537 times
Reputation: 3869
You are asking what the general opinion is. I would say the general opinion in the US is that the NI conflict involved "terrorism." You can dispute that impression on factual grounds, but you can't dispute that the impression exists.

That's just how it is. The nature of the world doesn't always conform to one's own wishes.
 
Old 03-22-2014, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
10,032 posts, read 17,970,506 times
Reputation: 35737
OP, this was your first post ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear&Whiskey View Post
This is a very sensitive subject for me I just wondered if there was anyone on this board who remembered the hunger strikes and the fact that British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher allowed fellow MP Bobby Sands to go 66 days without food before dying. He was 27 years old. On reflection I would like opinions from all nationalities who have an opinion to air them even if they are disparaging ones from any nationality even Brits.
You sounded curious about how people from different parts of the world viewed Bobby Sands and the hunger strikes. I read your first post and was very interested because I remember being horrified at what was going on (I was in my early 20s at the time, IIRC).

Then I read through the posts, and pretty quickly realized that you were not at all interested in the opinions of anyone who disagreed with your own views. Why did you ask for people's opinions, if you were just going to bash all those that disagreed with you?

This could have been a really interesting thread, but you have just been so rude to anyone who had the audacity to have an opinion different from yours. Too bad.
 
Old 03-22-2014, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
10,032 posts, read 17,970,506 times
Reputation: 35737
Mod cut: Orphaned (quoted post has been deleted).


As I wrote, I mostly remember being horrified at what was going on with the hunger strikes; the strikers, including Bobby Sands, were only a few years older than I, and I think I saw them as political prisoners more than terrorists (not sure how much we used that term back then, in the pre-9/11 days) ... I was young and enamored of the Kennedys and my own Irish heritage (my mom is English but her father is Irish).

I suspect that most Americans under the age of 35 would have no idea who Bobby Sands is. Alas, we get very little non-U.S. history in our schools.

But to your thread question, how will history remember the hunger strikers: well, it depends on WHOSE history, doesn't it? It would be interesting to compare textbooks from, say, England and Ireland in terms of how they portray the strikes.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-23-2014 at 08:11 PM..
 
Old 03-23-2014, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Pérouges
586 posts, read 828,349 times
Reputation: 1346
How will history remember the hunger strikers in the Maze Prison in Northern Ireland?

For the vast majority of the world I would imagine that it wont remember them at all. It wont have heard of Bobby Sands or those of his ilk and nor will they particularly care.

I'd heard of the hunger strikes as I was educated in England in the early-mid 80s (i'm French) but my wife has never heard of it and nor has my daughter (14) learned of it. I think that very few Europeans outside the UK or Eire will be aware of it and globally any further afield than that you'd most probably be very hard pushed to find anyone.

Some in the US will be aware due to the intriguing affiliation that some would appear to feel towards Ireland and the strange romanticism that some used to feel towards the IRA and it's republican compatriots, equally there were those that were repulsed by the self-same organisations so between the two views there will be some that remember.

Like i've said though, apart from the UK, Eire, some in the US, maybe some in Canada and indeed Australia that both have Irish immigrant populations I doubt history will pay them and the issues much interest.

Last edited by Mr Blue Sky; 03-23-2014 at 07:37 AM.. Reason: ... clarity.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:59 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top