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Old 03-30-2014, 12:09 AM
 
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Because no one wants to hear the truth.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:21 AM
 
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topher5150 View Post
Most of the people involved are dead and gone.
Yes, but the consequences and effects of these events sometimes continue into the present day.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Part of it is just an American thing - being obsessed with the sins of the past, no matter how accurate or inaccurate, guilt complexes, obsession with political correctness. It's just Americans being American.

You go to England or Scotland - a site where they executed 1,000's of suspected witches? A town where the King massacred it's subjects? You name it. It's a good natured tourist attraction now complete with humorous ghost tours, they have festivals, markets celebrating it, holidays, just a merry old time.
Americans are decidedly less concerned about sins of the past than other nationalities, including England and Scotland. That's even one of the popular stereotypes about Americans: "A hundred miles is a long way to an Englishman; a hundred years is a long time to an American."
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Old 04-05-2014, 01:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by travric View Post
They sure do.....and no doubt on 'both' sides. More often than not I'd say the 'problems' of history never get solved as such. They simply plod along even though say the 'papers' are signed, governments have banquets and speeches fill the air. We try to work them out rationally but then the irrational takes over with 'anger' or 'madness'. And then the center doesn't hold. And then all the poisions from the past rear their head once again. Every minute of every day we can be assured someone somewhere has an axe to grind and will let someone know it. As sure as the earth revolves around the sun.
Politicians sometimes exacerbate problems rather than solve them.

Last edited by kovert; 04-05-2014 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:21 PM
 
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Politicians sometimes exacerbate problems rather than solve them
True. Sometimes I really think that there are indeed some conflicts that are so intractable that any semblance of politicians using dedicated intellectual and emotional endeavor stiill fails to achieve success. They drag on interminably. It's as if trenches are dug and stagnant positions taken since any movement perhaps invites destruction. The past of course is done with but nevertheless the conflict's history is extremely important towards devising solutions. At times, no doubt the residual 'anger' inherent from looking at history is active and as suggested others can take advantage of it and not in a good way. And we know how those defeated in war can act after ruminating on that outcome.
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Old 04-06-2014, 01:35 PM
Zot
 
Location: 3rd rock from a nearby star
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Originally Posted by topher5150 View Post
Why are people mad at what happened 60, 70, 90, 100, 200 years ago.
It helps generate traffic on internet forums like this one!
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:25 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
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Default The puzzle palace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Part of it is just an American thing - being obsessed with the sins of the past, no matter how accurate or inaccurate, guilt complexes, obsession with political correctness. It's just Americans being American.

You go to England or Scotland - a site where they executed 1,000's of suspected witches? A town where the King massacred it's subjects? You name it. It's a good natured tourist attraction now complete with humorous ghost tours, they have festivals, markets celebrating it, holidays, just a merry old time.

There, that's part of the complex. The notion that the sins are in the past serves to feed our amour propre, as if in 2014 CE in the US we actually needed to feel better about ourselves, our progenitors, our country. Sure, if the sins were all committed back there, by those bad old people who may or may not have had anything to do with us - well, that pretty much absolves us in the here and now of having to do anything, yes? Yes, the past as scapegoat - we attach all the problems - slavery, political disenfranchisement, KKK - what-have-you - to some historical figure we can safely view with opprobrium, and cast him or her loose in the forest, there to be eaten by ravening wolves, and thereby cleansing us of any political/moral/religious taint the sacrifice may have infected us with.

The US has a checkered past - as what modern country doesn't? It would be more to the point to study our history - with an eye to fixing what can be fixed, and at least making sure that we don't merely repeat old mistakes - than to guild it over with glorious psalms, but that's not how Show Biz works. (This is also the problem with secrecy/spies/clandestine services in government - at what point do the keepers of the secrets start acting without any boundaries or input from government, since they're at the sharp end and know better than the masters sitting behind desks? It is a conundrum.)

Nonetheless, we have to solve the puzzle. It's either that or live in fear that some day we'll get a true megalomaniac in charge of the cloak-and-dagger clandestine ops service, & decide to short-circuit the entire question of governance by putting him/herself in charge - after suitable purges, of course.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:38 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
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Default A horse of a different color

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Originally Posted by muer22 View Post
Yes, the concern about the personal histories of individuals is something I do not hear about outside the US. May it be the reason Americans left the old country in the first place, being Puritans? It seems an attempt to castigate someone over personal behaviour that does not affect out individual lives.

But do hear. The US also elevates people greater than any country I know, e.g. celebrities. May this vengence is the balance.

Many of those victims also live in the US or stay in their countries where they hold deep grudges forever.

As far as leaving no stone unturned style of vengence. I say the US is still divided into groups and people would rather be the victor than the victim, because they have been victims throughout history not merely in one instance. If their victim is someone who did something wrong, it is free game, no mercy, because when they or their ancestors suffered they were innocents and few came to their aid.

Like I said, history is a pattern. Unless the tables turn victims will continue to be victims. Thats not the best thing, but we can say the same about the majority of the populace standing by while people are denied basic rights and being mistreated.

Only a very small minority of the colonists to British N.A. - what became the US - were Puritans. And even by the other groups in the N. World fleeing religious oppression, the Puritans were regarded as religious fanatics.

So no, even though US politics takes risible turns with public morality - we're not all Puritans nor even the descendants of Puritans - for which we are humbly grateful.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
4,792 posts, read 2,777,285 times
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Default The beam that is in your own eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by muer22 View Post
And the name calling begins...it only took 5 posts for civility to break down . We dont know southerns accepted racism? Where did that comment come from?Everyone knows southerns accepted slavery, murder of slaves, denial of education. Unlike you, we just dont think it was right, neither did many abolitionists in the northern USA

Certainly Plantation Society - the families/owners who actually owned many slaves, who sold cotton and tobacco at profit - accepted slavery. And the Plantation Society dominated the regional and state politics, government, justice, religion, pretty much everything. Read
Dominion of Memories: Jefferson, Madison & the Decline of VA - Susan Dunn - Basic Books, 2007. For decades, the Commonwealth of Virginia led the nation. The premier state in population, size, and wealth, it produced a galaxy of leaders: Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Mason, Marshall. Four of the first five presidents were Virginians. And yet by the middle of the nineteenth century, Virginia had become a byword for slavery, provincialism, and poverty. What happened? While the North rapidly industrialized and democratized, Virginia's leaders turned their backs on the accelerating modern world. Spellbound by the myth of aristocratic, gracious plantation life, they waged an impossible battle against progress and time itself.

There were southerners and even members of Plantation Society who could see the writing on the wall, and who tried to turn back from the coming divide. There were also shipping, finance and insurance firms/families in the North who also profited greatly from the slave trade. There's plenty of blame to go around - which is one of the points of the OP, or should be.
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
Only a very small minority of the colonists to British N.A. - what became the US - were Puritans. And even by the other groups in the N. World fleeing religious oppression, the Puritans were regarded as religious fanatics.

So no, even though US politics takes risible turns with public morality - we're not all Puritans nor even the descendants of Puritans - for which we are humbly grateful.
Alhough it's interesting how many people with non-Puritan heritage want to assume Puritan heritage...kinda.

If they realized what being a Puritan really meant--such as outlawing Christmas, Halloween, and Easter--and believing in strict separation of Church and State (which is why Puritans were called "Separatists" back in England), they might think better about that.

Maybe...it's not as though there was logic behind it anyway.
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