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Old 03-20-2014, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
2,259 posts, read 4,731,601 times
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Why are people mad at what happened 60, 70, 90, 100, 200 years ago. Most of the people involved are dead and gone. What good is it going to be mad at some one who worked for the Nazis, what good is it going to do to you to be mad at a president who had slaves, what good is going to do you to be mad at Christopher Columbus for not being the first person to discover America? So why does it seem that everyone feels they need to bring up the past and complain about every chance they get?
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,012,076 times
Reputation: 21237
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher5150 View Post
Why are people mad at what happened 60, 70, 90, 100, 200 years ago. Most of the people involved are dead and gone. What good is it going to be mad at some one who worked for the Nazis, what good is it going to do to you to be mad at a president who had slaves, what good is going to do you to be mad at Christopher Columbus for not being the first person to discover America? So why does it seem that everyone feels they need to bring up the past and complain about every chance they get?
Everyone? That would include you, would it not? What angers you about the past?

On several occasions I have written about how it is a mistake to try and hold figures from past years to the standards of modern day morality. I've pointed out how in all probability, future generations will be wondering how we could have accepted or taken for granted, conditions which they now view as immoral.

Morality is a liquid concept, defined by the era and defined by its affordability. Our view of slavery is colored by the absence of a need for it in modern times, if we were living in an age before machinery took care of so many everyday chores, we might find the rationalizations used to justify slavery more persuasive.

I would note that I am not the only person on this board who has expressed these ideas, we have had extensive discussions on the proper way to view the past.

Anyway, I'm not angry about the past, so it isn't "everyone."
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,139 posts, read 22,740,595 times
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Is this really being mad at historical people/events or Internet Forum style mad at historic people/events?

I can get testy online sometimes but I can't remember the last time I spent an evening alone in my room brooding over Andrew Jackson's slaves or Hitler's twisted ideas of what constitutes a good time.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:14 PM
 
14,989 posts, read 23,797,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topher5150 View Post
Why are people mad at what happened 60, 70, 90, 100, 200 years ago. Most of the people involved are dead and gone. What good is it going to be mad at some one who worked for the Nazis, what good is it going to do to you to be mad at a president who had slaves, what good is going to do you to be mad at Christopher Columbus for not being the first person to discover America? So why does it seem that everyone feels they need to bring up the past and complain about every chance they get?
Part of it is just an American thing - being obsessed with the sins of the past, no matter how accurate or inaccurate, guilt complexes, obsession with political correctness. It's just Americans being American.

You go to England or Scotland - a site where they executed 1,000's of suspected witches? A town where the King massacred it's subjects? You name it. It's a good natured tourist attraction now complete with humorous ghost tours, they have festivals, markets celebrating it, holidays, just a merry old time.
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:48 PM
 
105 posts, read 153,215 times
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First. You say "history". History is nothing but a historical pattern. The patterns - or history - was produced by a root cause that will always exist; e.g. economic disparities, cultural misunderstandings, jealousy, disdain for others belonging to an arbitrary unfavored caste/class/category.



The "madness" comes from people recognizing the reasons for those injustices - misunderstandings, lies. When a person gets "mad" they are recognizing two things:

1. That the a person does not recognize the root cause (jews being seen as lesser people, the failure of people to empathise for people who look differently than they do, the aptness for people to believe radio and politicians instead of getting to understand people, etc)

2. The fact that a person does not even realize point 1 and will never realize point one because they are part of a priviledged class. Therefore all the basis for those injustices live will continue.

3. The fact that they are labeled mad or crazy or uncredible because they disagree with a false view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post

Is this really being mad at historical people/events or Internet Forum style mad at historic people/events?
Both, many people are not confront with those historical questions because many people know mainstream society does not understand them so they stick to themselves where they wont be exposed to what they consider ignorance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post

Part of it is just an American thing
No, When Riga, Estonia took down the statue of a Red Army Soldier in 2007 people cheered. I think the international not caring about history is more about Western capitalism eroding traditional ways of life to the point money is the major goal of life. People in Rwanda cared about history. Anywhere where people identify as different groups within the same country, people care. the middle east, etc...
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:08 AM
 
14,989 posts, read 23,797,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muer22 View Post
No, When Riga, Estonia took down the statue of a Red Army Soldier in 2007 people cheered. I think the international not caring about history is more about Western capitalism eroding traditional ways of life to the point money is the major goal of life. People in Rwanda cared about history. Anywhere where people identify as different groups within the same country, people care. the middle east, etc...
Yes you are right, but my response was more concerned about internal history in the US - the president who had slaves, Christopher Columbus, the American who worked for the Nazis. Why do we beat up on ourselves so much? I figured that was the topic.
What you are talking about is ethnic, religious, and cultural fueds (I think, it wasn't clear) that originated millineums ago, which never seem to go away - British vs. French, Greek vs. Turkey, Arabs vs. Jew, Arab Shiite vs Arab Sunni. Those issues are more complex, but a different topic. At least that's how I interpreted the OP.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,694,851 times
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The only thing that I get angry about is the conscious and intentional misrepresentation of history by people who have a personal interest in a certain viewpoint prevailing.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,012,076 times
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The only thing that I get angry about is the conscious and intentional misrepresentation of history by people who have a personal interest in a certain viewpoint prevailing.
Something that you would never do.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:17 PM
 
105 posts, read 153,215 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Yes you are right, but my response was more concerned about internal history in the US - the president who had slaves, Christopher Columbus, the American who worked for the Nazis. Why do we beat up on ourselves so much? I figured that was the topic.
What you are talking about is ethnic, religious, and cultural fueds (I think, it wasn't clear) that originated millineums ago, which never seem to go away - British vs. French, Greek vs. Turkey, Arabs vs. Jew, Arab Shiite vs Arab Sunni. Those issues are more complex, but a different topic. At least that's how I interpreted the OP.
Yes, the concern about the personal histories of individuals is something I do not hear about outside the US. May it be the reason Americans left the old country in the first place, being Puritans? It seems an attempt to castigate someone over personal behaviour that does not affect out individual lives.

But do hear. The US also elevates people greater than any country I know, e.g. celebrities. May this vengence is the balance.

Many of those victims also live in the US or stay in their countries where they hold deep grudges forever.

As far as leaving no stone unturned style of vengence. I say the US is still divided into groups and people would rather be the victor than the victim, because they have been victims throughout history not merely in one instance. If their victim is someone who did something wrong, it is free game, no mercy, because when they or their ancestors suffered they were innocents and few came to their aid.

Like I said, history is a pattern. Unless the tables turn victims will continue to be victims. Thats not the best thing, but we can say the same about the majority of the populace standing by while people are denied basic rights and being mistreated.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:29 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,023 posts, read 19,483,733 times
Reputation: 25497
Answer: Ignorance.

It's ignorant not to know that refusing to work for the Nazis wasn't an easy thing for otherwise moral people to do.

It's ignorant not to know that slavery was very well accepted in the south, including by black slave-owners.

It's ignorant not to know that Christopher Columbus was simply the first documented discoverer of America, not necessarily the "first".

Ignorance is not always bliss.
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