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Old 03-21-2014, 09:16 PM
 
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1943 Assasination Attempts on Hitler

RealClearHistory has an interesting link on failed attempts on Hitler. In particular, there was a good one in 1943 but the bomb did not go off on his flight to Smolensk.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:29 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Interestingly enough, I am not sure that having Hitler be out of power would have made things better for the Allies in World War II.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
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Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
Interestingly enough, I am not sure that having Hitler be out of power would have made things better for the Allies in World War II.
On one hand, he made bad decisions.

On the other hand, without him Germany probably doesn't resist to the end. As things went really bad - ie, the last eight or so months of the war, when the Allies actually penetrated Germany proper on the ground - it was Hitler's sheer force of will that was the glue holding things together. Goering, his named successor, showed a tendency to simply withdraw as things went sour. He likely would have been a detached leader if he couldn't cut some sort of deal, and he very likely would have tried his mightiest to do that - he wanted to live comfortably, not go down Hitler's all-or-nothing road. And if he'd have lost the post-assassination power struggle to, say, Himmler, I have doubts that that the chicken farmer would have done any better. He preferred to live, too. He'd have pursued a deal and failing that, he simply did not have the base of support to drag things out to the end. Eventually, I suspect, power would have devolved to someone with whom the Allies could deal on some level - such as Rommel.

Just my two cents.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:56 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
1. On one hand, he made bad decisions.

2. On the other hand, without him Germany probably doesn't resist to the end. As things went really bad - ie, the last eight or so months of the war, when the Allies actually penetrated Germany proper on the ground - it was Hitler's sheer force of will that was the glue holding things together. Goering, his named successor, showed a tendency to simply withdraw as things went sour. He likely would have been a detached leader if he couldn't cut some sort of deal, and he very likely would have tried his mightiest to do that - he wanted to live comfortably, not go down Hitler's all-or-nothing road. And if he'd have lost the post-assassination power struggle to, say, Himmler, I have doubts that that the chicken farmer would have done any better. He preferred to live, too. He'd have pursued a deal and failing that, he simply did not have the base of support to drag things out to the end. Eventually, I suspect, power would have devolved to someone with whom the Allies could deal on some level - such as Rommel.

Just my two cents.
1. Agreed.

2. I am not completely sure about this -- after all, would the Allies have been willing to risk a repeat of the post-WWI "stab-in-the-back" legend developing? Also, I am not sure that any possible German leader at that point in time would have been willing to try creating a peace deal with the U.S.S.R. or that Stalin would have accepted such a peace deal at that point in time (by the time that such a peace deal would have been offered, if it even would have been offered at all, Stalin would have probably been on track to completely defeat Germany).
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
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Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
1. Agreed.

2. I am not completely sure about this -- after all, would the Allies have been willing to risk a repeat of the post-WWI "stab-in-the-back" legend developing? Also, I am not sure that any possible German leader at that point in time would have been willing to try creating a peace deal with the U.S.S.R. or that Stalin would have accepted such a peace deal at that point in time (by the time that such a peace deal would have been offered, if it even would have been offered at all, Stalin would have probably been on track to completely defeat Germany).
Well, it depends on the action a post-Hitler Germany takes.

Maybe it descends into a power struggle between competing factions for power in the wake of the assassination. What of Kursk then? (the Tresckow attempt was in March 1943) Who holds Germany while the rival factions struggle for supremacy in Berlin? Does Kursk happen or does the Army High Command get its way? If Hitler isn't around to permanently hand the Russians the initiative in the summer of 1943, then what?

Aside from that, Germany feared the Russians. Suppose Goering or Himmler - both of whom made overtures to the West - simply denuded the western front of forces and threw them all east in an attempt to show the U.S. and Britain that they were serious about some sort of substantive deal. Then what? Churchill was a pragmatist. He might well have preferred a badly-reduced Goering/Himmler-led Germany to Stalin holding everything to central Europe. The Allies might have landed and retaken France and the low countries. Then what? Maybe Goering and Himmler are unacceptable, so the military tosses him (whichever one) aside. I think the Allies could work with Rommel.

At any rate, at that point it would be extremely tempting for the western Allies to stop strategic bombing while exacting concessions (such as a purge of Nazis). If the Allies could handle allying themselves with the monstrous Soviet regime (which they prudently did), I think they could come around to a Rommel-led Germany regime.

But back to Kursk. If that doesn't happen, then maybe the Germans aren't as pessimistic about the war and don't make any serious overtures to West.

I really think much of it hinges on what happens in Germany immediately after the assassination and in the months thereafter. There are so many ways that could all play out.
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