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Old 02-04-2018, 01:09 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,156,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Not to soil the scholarly efforts of this thread, but I have always been confused on what exactly a Scotch-Irish pedigree is.

One side of my family has a recorded Coat of Arms in Ireland, and is recorded as being Scotch-Irish there in Mayo. County Mayo is said to be where the clan (one of many names that means 'descendant of Fergus' who for some reason is said to be a mythical warrior even though he has descendants ) formed, in a town that ages ago disappeared from County Mayo.

I have read where the Scotch-Irish were Irish people that for whatever reason went to Scotland for several decades, then up and went back to Ireland for several more decades. I have also read this in the reverse - originally Scottish moving to Ireland, and so on. I find it amusing that I have also read where the French called all the people from the entire British Isles 'Scotti', meaning Irish.

Is the history of these people really as nomadic as it seems? Why were they constantly on the move?

Is there a good, easy to follow resource of the history of the Scotch-Irish?

Thanks.
A couple of links which might help.


A wee while bak, wae tuk a luk at whit some yins caa "Tha Plantation". As wae pointed oot, it wus mair a hamecomin nor oanythin else. Tha Toon Rhymer explains that here.

Return O Tha Exiles

In boats an ships they landed,
Oan an unforgien shore:
Tae till tha lan an break in grun
Lake ther faithers in days o yore.

These fowk wernae planters
Whin aff tha boats they filed
They were comin hame frae Scotland
Whur yinst they'd bin exiled.

But this tim these Dalriadic fowk
Wud naw bae driven oot again,
They were here tae stay in ther faithers lan
Regardless o famine, persecution ir pain.

ULLANS RHYMES: Mair Aboot Tha Hamecomin

Ulster-Scots History

 
Old 02-04-2018, 01:14 PM
 
Location: East Side
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Ffs ulsterman that's Scots venacular
 
Old 02-04-2018, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Where the heart is...
4,927 posts, read 5,286,765 times
Reputation: 10673
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Not to soil the scholarly efforts of this thread, but I have always been confused on what exactly a Scotch-Irish pedigree is.

One side of my family has a recorded Coat of Arms in Ireland, and is recorded as being Scotch-Irish there in Mayo. County Mayo is said to be where the clan (one of many names that means 'descendant of Fergus' who for some reason is said to be a mythical warrior even though he has descendants ) formed, in a town that ages ago disappeared from County Mayo.

I have read where the Scotch-Irish were Irish people that for whatever reason went to Scotland for several decades, then up and went back to Ireland for several more decades. I have also read this in the reverse - originally Scottish moving to Ireland, and so on. I find it amusing that I have also read where the French called all the people from the entire British Isles 'Scotti', meaning Irish.

Is the history of these people really as nomadic as it seems? Why were they constantly on the move?

Is there a good, easy to follow resource of the history of the Scotch-Irish?

Thanks.
Great Post ComeCloser

Pedigrees! I.e. Irish, Scottish, English...maybe something else? There seems to be an amalgamate of combinations for this proprietorship or claim to a Scots/Scotch 'pedigree'. Not being directly from the town, country, or region of Ulster, I could not say.

As an aside and from what I have read from 'some' you don't ever want to be a 'plastic paddy'.
 
Old 02-04-2018, 02:13 PM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peony321 View Post
Ffs ulsterman that's Scots venacular
Its okay. Its quite beautiful and I get the just of it. They are coming home from Scotland and will not be driven out again. Thanks so much for the links Ulsterman.
 
Old 02-04-2018, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Where the heart is...
4,927 posts, read 5,286,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peony321 View Post
Ffs ulsterman that's Scots venacular
Now I'm afeart!
 
Old 02-04-2018, 02:25 PM
 
Location: The Ozone Layer, apparently...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeIsWhere... View Post
Great Post ComeCloser

Pedigrees! I.e. Irish, Scottish, English...maybe something else? There seems to be an amalgamate of combinations for this proprietorship or claim to a Scots/Scotch 'pedigree'. Not being directly from the town, country, or region of Ulster, I could not say.

As an aside and from what I have read from 'some' you don't ever want to be a 'plastic paddy'.
Its an amazing history that most of us of Scotch-Irish decent know so little about here in America. I would think if one truly is of Scotch-Irish descent, after reading the first paragraph of the link to Ulster-Scots history, they would be, in truth, the furthest thing from a "plastic paddy".

Last edited by ComeCloser; 02-04-2018 at 02:39 PM..
 
Old 02-04-2018, 02:35 PM
 
Location: East Side
522 posts, read 712,594 times
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Geis Wan
 
Old 02-04-2018, 02:48 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,156,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
Its okay. Its quite beautiful and I get the just of it. They are coming home from Scotland and will not be driven out again. Thanks so much for the links Ulsterman.
ComeCloser you've summed it up that's what the poem is saying.


GOD'S FRONTIERSMEN...tells the dramatic story of the Ulster-Scots,or Scots-Irish as they are also known - Scottish Presbyterians who came to the north of ireland in the seventeenth century and who constitue the dominant strain among Ulster Protestants to-day. Aptly called the 'Frontiersmen of God',they brought with them their Cavlinist beliefs, a stern work ethic and a fiercely independent spirit. Economic hardship and religious discrimination led thousands to cross the Atlantic where they formed the vanguard of the great army of pioneers who pushed the frontier west.

Many of the famous names in American history came from Ulster stock: the frontiersmen Davy Crockett and Kit Carson,the Civil War generals Stonewall Jackson and Ulysses S Grant,and,in the world of business,the millionaire dynasties of the Gettys and the Mellons. The Ulster-Scots played a leading role in drafting the Declaration of Independence. At least ten United States Presidents were of Ulster-Scots origin,including Andrew Jackson and Woodrow Wilson.

To the developing lands of Canada, Australia and New Zealand the Ulster-Scots sent farmers and engineers, doctors and clergymen, who played a major role in forging these new societies.

In Ulster the book charts Belfast's rapid economic growth in the nineteenth century, due largely to the entrepreneurial skills and energy of the Ulster-Scots, and examines the deepening religious and political divisions leading to the partition of Ireland in 1922. A companion volume to the major Channel Four television series of the same name, the book offers a greater understanding of an often misrepresented people who have helped shape Western society
 
Old 02-04-2018, 03:34 PM
 
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I thought the protestant population of Ulster came only from the border country of Scotland and England, Galloway, Cumberland , Berwickshire ect:, not the Highlands, or am I wrong? (Also, Ulster had a large contingent from other parts of South West England and also huegenots? SIC )These border people were the toughest, clannish folk with surnames like Gray, Armstrong, Charlton and Bell. So far from having any Irish ancestry, the Ulsterman were British ( Scottish ( majority)/ English descent) Hence the masses of British Union flags when Northern Ireland play football in their green shirts. Rory Stewart had a brilliant documentary that blamed Hadrian`s wall for the severing of Britain, and the first artificial line of Scotland and England; but he made the point that the Borderers were NOT Scottish or English, in their own view, they were borderers and Britons. The term Scots/Irish was given by the Yankee establishment .
 
Old 02-04-2018, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Where the heart is...
4,927 posts, read 5,286,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by England Dan View Post
I thought the protestant population of Ulster came only from the border country of Scotland and England, Galloway, Cumberland , Berwickshire ect:, not the Highlands, or am I wrong? (Also, Ulster had a large contingent from other parts of South West England and also huegenots? SIC )These border people were the toughest, clannish folk with surnames like Gray, Armstrong, Charlton and Bell. So far from having any Irish ancestry, the Ulsterman were British ( Scottish ( majority)/ English descent) Hence the masses of British Union flags when Northern Ireland play football in their green shirts. Rory Stewart had a brilliant documentary that blamed Hadrian`s wall for the severing of Britain, and the first artificial line of Scotland and England; but he made the point that the Borderers were NOT Scottish or English, in their own view, they were borderers and Britons. The term Scots/Irish was given by the Yankee establishment .
Well, interestingly enough...you may be on to something.

Scotch-Irish Americans

The term Scotch-Irish is used primarily in the United States, with people in Great Britain or Ireland who are of a similar ancestry identifying as Ulster Scots people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans
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