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Old 03-26-2014, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
A great book to read on the contribution of the Scots- Irish to America is " Born Fighting " by Congressman Jim Web. Yes, an intelligent former Congressman who can also write.

It is a most interesting book on the history of that group in America.

Another take on the Scots- Irish but more narrow and dealing with those people that settled and still in live in Appalachia is " Deer Hunting with Jesus", by Joe Bageant ( who is also one of the people he wrote about ).
I have the James Webb one. A great read. God's Frontiersmen and Ulster Sails West are two other good reads. Its the first I have heard of ''Deer Hunting with Jesus''. Will have to keep my eye open for it.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
On dad's side, his mother refered to the family as scots irish very pointedly. Dad was born in 1911. In some places was still very much a thing of pride and identity. The family has been traced back and came in the early 1700's but didn't forget.

And there is my great great grandfather and his wife he met in New York. He was an Orangeman, and suddenly found reason to leave Ulster immediately. That's a story I want to know. He left his wife and kids, married my g g grandmother, another ulster scot, in New York. They also most proudly claimed that identity though they came a couple of hundred years later.

If you look back and it says "Irish" for nationality on immigration, and its from Ulster and surrounding areas, likely they too were Ulster Scots.

The ones who came very early were kicked off their land when the English expanded their estates. They were literally herded out and to the sea and put on boats. When they got to the America's, they were allowed to mightate back into Kentucky and west Virginia even though it wasn't technically 'legal' as a buffer to fight off the tribes. Which is what they were used for origionally in Ulser, lower caste scots brought in to dilute the Irish and their religion. The ones who came in the 1800's were often escaping the disorder as well as the poverty of their home. Or as in the case of the grandfather what I assume are some form of radical politics.


I went to a very interesting st patty's day celebration in Santa Ana Ca, which was pretty much founded by members of my family. They had orange and green streamers and orange and green hats and the same music. They had an informal competiton between the orange merchants and the green ones. Everyone was having a good time and there was no real rancor but they still remembered the two colors... Never seen that before. The old loses its sting but isn't forgotten.
Its reckoned that upwards of 200,000 came from Ulster to America in the 1700s. Most (if not all) would have been Ulster-Scots Presbyterians. One Hessian officer said 'called it what you will it is nothing but a Scotch-Irish Presbyterian rebellion' this was a comment on the War of Independence.

The English did make life difficult for the Ulster-Scots and so that is why they headed to America and probably why they were in the vanguard in the War of Independence. Presbyterian marriages weren't recognised, and any children were classed as bastards. They had to pay tithes to the COI and their baptism were not recognised. They also made it difficult for them to trade or do business etc. Anyway they had enough and set sail for the new world. The first ship Eagles Wing actually set sail from Groomsport in1634 but ran into severe weather. Taking this as a sign from God, they turned back. Many went out as congregations from the different church's usually accompanied by their minister.

And orange was of course the best colour . Orange is in the Irish tricolour and is supposed to represent the Protestants of Ireland, but in practice its a different story.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:32 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
Seems they played a leading role in the 'making of America'

Professor J.G. Leyburn mentions that in 1695 the Secretary of Maryland reported that ' the Scotch-Irish are numerous ' in two counties of the colony, and quotes two Anglican clergymen who in 1723 referred to settlers from Ireland who ' call themselves Scotch-Irish '. One went on to specify that they were from the north of Ireland, the other to describe the...m as ' the bitterest railers against the church that ever trod upon American ground '. ( They evidently had brought their resentment against the Test Act and the Anglican Establishment to America ). Although they were loosely referred to as 'Irish' , it is clear that the name Scotch-Irish was coined at least 300 years ago.

The main exodus of the Scotch-Irish from Ulster to America between 1717 and 1775 has been called ' The Great Migration'. It is likely that upwards of 200,000 left Ulster for the American colonies in the six decades before the Revolutionary War.

Those arriving with the first two migratory waves settled initially in Pennsylvania, while those arriving in the early 1740s ( as well as the younger sons of those already settled in the more developed areas of the colony ) overflowed southward along the Shenandoah Valley into Virginia. By the late 1740s significant numbers of Scotch-Irish were settling in the Piedmont country of North Carolina, supplemented in 1754 and 1755 by fresh arrivals with the fourth great wave from Ulster. Indian raids delayed the effective settlement of the Piedmont area of South Carolina until the mid- 1760s. Undoubtedly some Scotch-Irish pushed further west across the mountains despite the fact that all territory west of the Appalachians was designated an Indian Reserve by royal declaration in 1763. It was only after the Revolutionary War, however, that they moved in substantial numbers into Kentucky and Tennessee. Germans ( initially from small, rather exclusive pietist sects, though mainly Lutherans ) constituted the other major group of immigrants ever seeking new lands. The pioneers of the various national groups, however, tended to keep their early settlements separate from each other.
Don't forget that folks were also fleeing from the imposed tithe, which the tax man collected on behalf of the church of England (Anglicans). They were Quakers and Presbyterians, not all Church of England. Some of these same people moved from N. Ireland to England and Scotland, then back to N. Ireland and then on to American They were a travelling lot! Some were my ancestors
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:40 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
Its reckoned that upwards of 200,000 came from Ulster to America in the 1700s. Most (if not all) would have been Ulster-Scots Presbyterians. One Hessian officer said 'called it what you will it is nothing but a Scotch-Irish Presbyterian rebellion' this was a comment on the War of Independence.

The English did make life difficult for the Ulster-Scots and so that is why they headed to America and probably why they were in the vanguard in the War of Independence. Presbyterian marriages weren't recognised, and any children were classed as bastards. They had to pay tithes to the COI and their baptism were not recognised. They also made it difficult for them to trade or do business etc. Anyway they had enough and set sail for the new world. The first ship Eagles Wing actually set sail from Groomsport in1634 but ran into severe weather. Taking this as a sign from God, they turned back. Many went out as congregations from the different church's usually accompanied by their minister.

And orange was of course the best colour . Orange is in the Irish tricolour and is supposed to represent the Protestants of Ireland, but in practice its a different story.
per my previous post, I guess you didn't forget they were Presbyterians I only read the first page and then posted before seeing this post Been a long day!

My dad was an Orangeman, and he proudly walked in the parade in Southport, England every July. I was once asked to plan an event for my job, it was a St Patrick's Day celebration. Imagine how dumbfounded I was at being asked this. Believe it or not, I am Brit but was never able to visit my cousins in N Ireland due to the troubles. We had one too many houses blown up for my liking. I look forward to visiting there soon without having to look over my shoulder
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:37 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Anyone with an interest in the Scots-Irish, and their specific contribution to the United States, would probably enjoy "Albion's Seed", by David Hacket Fischer.

This book delineates the four cultural and social styles that emigrated to the US from the UK. The Scots-Irish are one of these.

In fact, I think I'll read this again.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RaleighLass View Post
Don't forget that folks were also fleeing from the imposed tithe, which the tax man collected on behalf of the church of England (Anglicans). They were Quakers and Presbyterians, not all Church of England. Some of these same people moved from N. Ireland to England and Scotland, then back to N. Ireland and then on to American They were a travelling lot! Some were my ancestors
Aye they got about. Many left after 1641 (those which survived) and as you say went to Scotland and England, but others stayed, and later when things settled down some of the others came back to Ulster.

Yes the tithe was imposed and also they were not allowed to bury their dead in a Presbyterian ceremony. These were people who had been loyal to the throne and 10,000 of them died in the Siege, but their loyalty was threw back in their face and the Test Act was brought in. Is it any wonder they were in the vanguard of the American Revolution.

McGregor the minister from N.H. had fought in the Siege just before he died insisted that his coffin be carried by those who had stood with him at the Siege.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RaleighLass View Post
per my previous post, I guess you didn't forget they were Presbyterians I only read the first page and then posted before seeing this post Been a long day!

My dad was an Orangeman, and he proudly walked in the parade in Southport, England every July. I was once asked to plan an event for my job, it was a St Patrick's Day celebration. Imagine how dumbfounded I was at being asked this. Believe it or not, I am Brit but was never able to visit my cousins in N Ireland due to the troubles. We had one too many houses blown up for my liking. I look forward to visiting there soon without having to look over my shoulder
I have friends in England who have walked in Southport. I went to watch the parade once and it was a great day and Southport is a lovey wee town.

It was a bit dicey here at one time. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time could cost you your life. However, thankfully times are different now, though there is still some minor trouble now and again. But overall things are definitely better.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Anyone with an interest in the Scots-Irish, and their specific contribution to the United States, would probably enjoy "Albion's Seed", by David Hacket Fischer.

This book delineates the four cultural and social styles that emigrated to the US from the UK. The Scots-Irish are one of these.

In fact, I think I'll read this again.
I have heard of ''Albion's Seed '' but have never read it. Will have to change that. I would recommend ''Ulster Sails West ' by W.F. Marshall a great wee book telling about the Ulster folk in America and the contributions they gave to the making of America. He gives a lot of detail about their part in the War of Independence.

''God's Frontiersmen '' is a magazine size book with plenty of reading and lots of photos. There are others too like '' The People With No Name '' and of course James Webb's '' Born Fighting ''
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:25 AM
 
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A clip from the drama-documentary God's Frontiersmen series.


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Old 03-27-2014, 08:35 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by Ulsterman View Post
Aye they got about. Many left after 1641 (those which survived) and as you say went to Scotland and England, but others stayed, and later when things settled down some of the others came back to Ulster.

Yes the tithe was imposed and also they were not allowed to bury their dead in a Presbyterian ceremony. These were people who had been loyal to the throne and 10,000 of them died in the Siege, but their loyalty was threw back in their face and the Test Act was brought in. Is it any wonder they were in the vanguard of the American Revolution.

McGregor the minister from N.H. had fought in the Siege just before he died insisted that his coffin be carried by those who had stood with him at the Siege.
Thanks, I didn't know this. I"d have been right there with them saying sod off to the UKOh wait a minute, I did
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