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...When the famine sent millions of Irish to America, it included both, but starvation is an equal opportunity. That wasn't a factor in the earlier migrations.
My family lines have multiple roots in Ulster and all of the families even today are fervent protestents so I doubt that any of them would have welcomed a catholic to the family.
Yes, the Famine was a different slice of cake for sure. Physical survival rather than religion and civil rights was the number one motivator. And I'm sure no Catholic country on the European continent would have welcomed the huge number starving Irish Catholic peasantry. They had been welcoming enough to a steady small stream with aspirations for the military in the past, but the Famine era Irish Catholics were a different kettle of fish. Canada, the U.S. and Australia all still needed settlers.
As for intermarriage, my R.C. father was an initially unwelcomed addition to my mother's family which had been Presbyterian Orange Order folks since they step off the boat in Canada in 1851.
I have enjoyed the fact that my family is both Scots-Irish and Irish Catholic, the former from Tyrone and the latter from Galway and Cork. Their pre-famine social circumstances appear to have been much the same, and their experiences in the Famine and reaching Canada were also quite similar.
The Ulster Scots in America were always at great pains to distinguish themselves from the so-called 'native Irish', in their religion and culture as in their former homeland they broadly ploughed a different furrow. Parker's History of Londonderry, New Hampshire from the 18th century relates..
''Although they came to this land from Ireland, where their ancestors had a century before planted themselves, the Scots-Irish settlers retained unmixed the national Scots character...nothing offended them more than to be called Irish ''
The Rev James McGregor wrote to Governor Shute of the New England colony shortly after his arrival from Ulster in 1718 with several hundred Presbyterians from the Bann valley around Coleraine, Ballymoney and Macosquin: ''We are surprised to hear ourselves termed Irish people when we so ventured all for the British crown and liberty. ''
The Rev Dr John McIntosh of Philadelphia and an Ulsterman made this statement '' From Derry to Down I have lived with them. Every town and hamlet from the Causeway to Carlingford is familiar to me. It has been said that the Scots settlers mingled freely with the Celt. The Scots mingled freely with the English purtians and with the refugee Huguenots; but so far as my search of state papers and old manuscripts, examination of old parish registers and years of personal talk with and study of Ulster folk disclosed - the Scots did not mingle to any appreciable extent with the so-called native Irish, ''To this very hour, in the remoter parts of Antrim and Down the country folk will tell you '' We're no Eerish bot Scoatch '' all their folklore all their tales, their traditions, their songs, their poetry, their heroes and heroines, and their home speech is of the oldest Scots lowland types and times.
One of my great grandfathers came from Ulster, and in the bible page recording my grandmothers birth it records him coming from Ireland. But written next to it and underlined is SCOTS Irish. Just in case anyone had the wrong idea.
One of my great grandfathers came from Ulster, and in the bible page recording my grandmothers birth it records him coming from Ireland. But written next to it and underlined is SCOTS Irish. Just in case anyone had the wrong idea.
I think its a bit like people from Scotland, England and Wales who are from there, but can also be said to be from Britain.
Ulster has a long history of struggle and its ancient heroes were Setanta ( Cuchulainn) and Congal. I would say by far the most who went to America were from Ulster and that includes Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan though by far the most Ulster people came from the six counties of what is now N.I.
The 'rebellion' of Ulster during the home rule crisis was another example of Ulster making a stand.
Scots or Scotch-Irish is purely an American description of the people and the one that stuck with them in America. On many different occasions they objected to being called Irish and in the end settled for the Scots/Scotch-Irish description of them which did give them some semblance of being different from the famine/celtic Irish.
No, the first of my family name to come to the New World was Samual Caldwell, with his wife Elizabeth, from Donegal. They landed in Delaware and move inland to settle in Pennsylvania.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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I too read the book by Senator Webb. Scotch Irish - along with English - is by far my most common ancestry group.
After reading it, along with other research, it does seem like the Scotch Irish did more to form American culture - for better and worse - than any other group. The over the top patriotism, religious fervor, love of music and writing, fear of government, etc is traced to the Scotch Irish more than any other group
I too read the book by Senator Webb. Scotch Irish - along with English - is by far my most common ancestry group.
After reading it, along with other research, it does seem like the Scotch Irish did more to form American culture - for better and worse - than any other group. The over the top patriotism, religious fervor, love of music and writing, fear of government, etc is traced to the Scotch Irish more than any other group
True. They were to the forefront in the War of Independence and also the church, politics, law, education, commerce etc. Here are just some from a book I have.
I will look up some of the books recommended in this thread, particularly Albion's Seed.
Not sure if this has been referenced on C-D anytime recently. This very-long BBC/PBS special called The Story of English from 1986 takes a look at Scottish-dialect influence on America from historical, cultural and linguistic perspectives.
The documentary covers the British Isles in the entire series. I've not watched the entire series, but Part 4 of 7 (The Story of English episode 4 - The Guid Scots Tongue) shows some examples of people who were living at the time in the U.S. with local dialects in the Appalachian mountains long influenced by the earlier Scots-Irish settlers' language from the colonial era.
The Story of English episode 4 - The Guid Scots Tongue
Very interesting maus. There is no doubt they Scotch-Irish/Ulster-Scots had a big influence in America, and language was one of them. We are losing a lot of the old words here, and words which my parents and grandparents used are no longer heard. Sad really but such is 'progress'. But there is still an interest in our language and Ullans (Ulster Scots) is still used in the country areas of Ulster.
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