Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-19-2014, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,440 posts, read 28,592,101 times
Reputation: 7477

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
Is the North Slope going to secede from Anchorage? Or do the Aleutians want to be their own state?

Secession from the US isn't an option, no matter how delusional locals are.
There have been a number of Alaskan politicians who've paid lip service to secession from the US, due to the popularity of Alaskan independence in Alaska. None have ever done anything to actually initiate secession.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-19-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Wallace, Idaho
3,352 posts, read 6,661,231 times
Reputation: 3589
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguardisle View Post
Are you really sure that the southern plantation owners could not have found a way to free the slaves and still turn a profit? They may have made a little less but still been successful.
Think about it this way. Would modern-day corporations ever bring back the jobs they offshored? They'd make fewer profits because they'd have to pay an American a living wage, as opposed to the mere pennies they can pay someone in China who has no civil, political, or labor rights to do anything about his situation.

It's almost exactly the same thing all over again. The big difference today is that the slaveholders (i.e. the corporations) own the politicians, so nothing will be done about it. To the contrary, our government today actively works in tandem with the corporations to suppress workers in foreign countries. One of the leaks Bradley Manning exposed was that the U.S. embassy actively worked in Haiti to block a minimum-wage increase for workers at factories that contracted with U.S. companies like Levi's and Hanes. And that's the same reason China will never become democratic: Corporations have too much of a vested interest in keeping wages down so they can continue to exploit the labor pool, like a massive modern-day Dickensian sweatshop.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2014, 10:04 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,557 posts, read 17,256,908 times
Reputation: 37268
Quote:
why does the south still threaten to sucede?
One reason the South is trying to secede is that we're trying to get away from alla y'all brilliant Yankees who can't spell 'secede' and have no idea what to do when the computer draws a squiggly red line under a word.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,249,887 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguardisle View Post
Isnt that what they called sharecropping ? And also the peasants in other countries in the past or the potatoe farmers working the English owned land in Ireland? Talk about a dead end job.

It sounds like most soldiers fighting the war in the south were dying for the interests of the wealthy minority . I recall an 1863 draft riot in New York over the issue of the wealthy being allowed to hire someone else to take their place fighting and dying in the civil war.

New York City draft riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
tenant farming and share cropping are the same idea. The way it tends to work out is that amount owed is never quite paid, so you stay until it does until you can't. Another term used legally is debt slavery. In the early medieval period, when serfdome developed as a practical economic system, it gave something to everyone. The lord of the castle afforded protection to those without it in a world with no functional government. The pesant didn't eat well but had a place to live and something to eat. But all systems outlive their usefulness, and it became impossible for peasants to leave and passed down to the next generations. They didn't change the rules when at a later time, the really desperate could ask to become slaves, putting them at a lower caste, when it might have been the difference between eating and not for the man and his family.

slavery, share cropping, tenant farming, indentures (which were also declared illegal when slavery was made illegal) and selling ones duty to someone poor are all examples of the poor sacrificing themselves to survive for the wealthy. It is, I think, a long established mark of human civilization.

If society dissapeared tomorrow and there were a lot of hungry and desperate people, one of the first things to reappear would be some version of slavery/involuntary or compromized labor. People do what they have to to survive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,249,887 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguardisle View Post
Isn't California having a lot of financial and unemployment problems currently ?
Yes, there are especially a lot of older people short on retirement who don't get hired because they are 'old', and younger people who don't have enough training for anything beyond minimum wage. I haven't lived there for a few years, but my son does and he's working two jobs.

Every area changes, and over time what was normal becomes different and sometimes its a hard thing to be willing to admit it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,249,887 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian71 View Post
Think about it this way. Would modern-day corporations ever bring back the jobs they offshored? They'd make fewer profits because they'd have to pay an American a living wage, as opposed to the mere pennies they can pay someone in China who has no civil, political, or labor rights to do anything about his situation.

It's almost exactly the same thing all over again. The big difference today is that the slaveholders (i.e. the corporations) own the politicians, so nothing will be done about it. To the contrary, our government today actively works in tandem with the corporations to suppress workers in foreign countries. One of the leaks Bradley Manning exposed was that the U.S. embassy actively worked in Haiti to block a minimum-wage increase for workers at factories that contracted with U.S. companies like Levi's and Hanes. And that's the same reason China will never become democratic: Corporations have too much of a vested interest in keeping wages down so they can continue to exploit the labor pool, like a massive modern-day Dickensian sweatshop.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Even China is now oursourcing. The people who started profitable businesses at the start for very small wages are facing a problem where the workers now want more, and they are doing what we did, outsource. Vietnam is one of the places they are sending their work. Corporate thinking sees only the bottom line no matter the culture or conditioning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 07:34 AM
 
9,694 posts, read 7,386,107 times
Reputation: 9931
everybody always talk about the slavery and the south, lincoln did not free the slave in united state, only those in southern state, slavery was still legal in northern state for another two years, source: history channel
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 08:49 AM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,532,401 times
Reputation: 7783
Default spelling off by one letter

The word sucede is the imperative tense to Spanish suceder, which mean "to succeed".

The English verb secede documented as early as 1702, "to leave one's companions," from Latin secedere "go away, withdraw, separate; rebel, revolt".

Talk of secession is always a good way to get attention. It happens in every country in the world when people feel disenfranchised. Most secession movements never advance to reality.

The secession movement in Hawaii is probably stronger than the one in the South. At least Hawaii was a onetime kingdom that was forcibly overthrown. They have a better argument than the South. But it is unlikely to happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,062 posts, read 2,546,753 times
Reputation: 1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Real easy. The South could have argued the right to secede through the federal courts (but I deeply suspect that wasn't going to go anywhere), they could have proposed a constitutional amendment, or they could have issued a call for a constitutional convention and then the nation could have voted to keep or dismantle the union. Frankly, I have a sneaking suspicion that at the time most of the north would have said goodbye and good riddance.
It would have been nice if they had all done it that way put away their anger and let the courts decide . Here is a question though if the south was allowed to secede would slavery still be legal there today?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,062 posts, read 2,546,753 times
Reputation: 1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
Not from the US any more than any state has. That's already been settled when the various tribes surrendered back in the 1870s and 1880s.

What Native Americans argue is that they are "sovereign nations" when dealing with the states that their reservations are located in, so state laws generally don't apply to them, only federal law and treaty law. Consequently, states can't prevent Indian casinos nor can they restrict Native Americans from traditional fishing rights etc. This is complicated in some eastern states like NY because the states themselves made treaties with some tribes, which soured relations between the various Iroquois tribes and NYS. This has been especially a problem with the Senecas in NYS as one of the state's treaties with the Senecas exempted them from taxation.

I am glad the Indians were given some special rights and priviledges they certainly deserve it. I hope they use them to help their people and do good things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top