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Old 04-20-2014, 08:00 PM
 
18,775 posts, read 27,211,361 times
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Why you are not "mad" at Great Britain who sold out its ally to Germany? Even better, tope tier bankers who rose NSDAP to power to start with? Including Wall Street and City ones? THEY don't care about countries, allegiances, treaties, honor and word given. They care only about profit and gain. They don't even care, if many of their own will be slaughtered as the result. "Goal justifies means", ever heard of THAT wisdom? There is another one. "to kill 100 men is crime. To kill millions is statistics.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:31 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
1,492 posts, read 1,607,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Of course all of this ignores the vast partisan networks, the free French Forces including many colonial troops from Senegal, Morocco, Algeria, and Tahiti. Free French forces also fought as units in the RAF and the Soviet air force. So one should be a bit more specific when speaking of French collaboration.
I completely agree. I was addressing EricS39's comments about Vichy France, which I felt were somewhat overzealous. Obviously, there were many French who continued to fight with the allies against Nazi Germany.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:22 AM
 
Location: London
4,717 posts, read 5,024,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTarge13 View Post
I would have wanted the French to continue to fight Nazi Germany but can not condemn their surrender and reluctant cooperation.
Churchill got it all right. Free French forces were opposed to Vichy. Free French fought Vichy French.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:23 AM
 
Location: London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Why you are not "mad" at Great Britain who sold out its ally to Germany?
Which war are you on about?
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:57 AM
 
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I'm sure some people agreed with Hitler, just some people have expressed the view that all feminists are man hating morons. It does happen, you know. With Hitler in power, it would have been much easier for these people to come to power too.

There are all sorts in a country. Countries, and people, are not homogenous. If they were, we wouldn't have civil wars.
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Old 04-21-2014, 04:59 AM
 
42 posts, read 30,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Why you are not "mad" at Great Britain who sold out its ally to Germany? Even better, tope tier bankers who rose NSDAP to power to start with? Including Wall Street and City ones? THEY don't care about countries, allegiances, treaties, honor and word given. They care only about profit and gain. They don't even care, if many of their own will be slaughtered as the result. "Goal justifies means", ever heard of THAT wisdom? There is another one. "to kill 100 men is crime. To kill millions is statistics.

Agreed.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,409,504 times
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Originally Posted by EricS39 View Post
A madman, Adolf Hitler, invades your country founded on the declaration of man and Freedom and liberty and a republic

Then Hitler marches right into Paris

But at some point Vichy France is born ....Vichy France films shows the French turned to love Hitler

Like wait a minute!!!!! Yes we were invaded by Nazis but no big deal...on second thought.....Germany and France are like siblings

Maybe we should kill the Jews ...wait a minute ....let's follow everything hitler is doing but worse let's deport children on deport trains also

Waiiiit a minute we should love Germany instead...and so a happy France became Vichy France and France suddenly became grateful to serve Germany

How on earth could they do a 180 like this ????? It's astonishing

It means every bold courageous French historic moment is erased to me and discredited . And also that if any country invades France, France will ultimately support that authority over itself

Your view of 20th century history is...

... bizarre.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:52 AM
 
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I also don't understand how so many Dutch (Netherlands) men could have possibly supported the Nazi's and willingly joined the Wermacht --- AFTER the German Luftwaffe in May of 1940 in a completely pre-meditated attack, had just destroyed much of the 2nd largest Dutch city, Rotterdam, killing 900 and leaving 30,000 Dutch people homeless. If you were Dutch - and the Germans had done that horrible attack to your country, then how could you possibly think of siding with them? (as described in the book, and movie, "Soldier of Orange").

The Netherlands had never done anything in their history to offend Germany or provoke this attack. In fact, earlier during W.W. I, the Dutch had even supplied the German air force with Fokker airplanes. And they gave shelter to the former Kaiser.

Last edited by slowlane3; 04-21-2014 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:35 AM
 
4,370 posts, read 7,020,569 times
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The Nazi's appealed to French citizens, saying they were fighting the global threat of communism. The Nazi's had posters glued to walls in French cities, showing a brickmason building a wall, and with the slogan "Every Frenchman who goes to Germany to work, is like adding another brick to the wall holding back the spread of Communism."

This kind of made sense, since Stalin's Communism a few years before, had been responsible for the starvation of several million Ukrainians on collective-farms - described here Holodomor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (not to mention even millions more Russians sent to starve or freeze in Gulag prison camps).
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:42 AM
 
1,603 posts, read 1,876,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
I also don't understand how so many Dutch (Netherlands) men could have possibly supported the Nazi's and willingly joined the Wermacht --- AFTER the German Luftwaffe in May of 1940 had just destroyed much of the 2nd largest Dutch city, Rotterdam, killing 900 and leaving 30,000 Dutch people homeless. If you were Dutch and the Germans had done that horrible attack to your country, then how could you possibly think of siding with them? (as described in the book, and movie, "Soldier of Orange").

The Netherlands had never done anything earlier to offend Germany or provoke this attack. In fact, earlier during W.W. I, the Dutch had even supplied the German air force with Fokker airplanes. And they gave shelter to the former Kaiser.
Dutchmen also formed an entire Waffen SS Division.
France not only lost 1,300,000 only 20 years before but in those 30 days had suffered 92,000 killed (whereas British forces suffered less than 9,000 including the Lancastria disaster) and hundred of thousands of maimed and wounded.
It's easy to judge.
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