Was Lincoln a Great President? (biggest, invaded, Russia, military)
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Okay, but the specifics of the forming of West Virginia is another story. The issue before us was whether or not the Lincoln administration was concerned about southern loyalists. It was.
Oh, I absolutely agree that it was. I just wanted to clarify that the formation of WV wasn't just about loyalists. I think it is clear that the preservation of the union was job #1 for ole Abe.
Oh, I absolutely agree that it was. I just wanted to clarify that the formation of WV wasn't just about loyalists. I think it is clear that the preservation of the union was job #1 for ole Abe.
Indeed it was - and he succeeded.
So unless it is claimed that someone else could have achieved the same result at less cost, I don't see how his greatness can be denied.
Like most Americans students, I was taught that Lincoln was one of the best presidents we’ve had in our relatively short history as an independent nation. Slavery, after all, was ended under his administration.
Lately, however, I’ve been thinking about this perceived mythical greatness that has been bestowed upon Mr. Lincoln. Can we really consider him to be a great president if over 600k people died during the Civil War? Granted, the United States and the rest ofthe world would probably look totally different today had the south been allowed to secede, but surely slavery would have ultimately died of natural causes shortly after the south gained independence. I imagine the North and the rest of the world would have probably imposed tough economic sanctions on the south until the slaves were free.
So what are your thoughts? Am I wrong for questioning the consensus #1 president?
No. And what's this "consensus" business? Maybe #1 worst, with FDR and maybe Woodrow Wilson trailing.
P.S. Wasn't WV the "state" that thought that secession was wrong, and demonstrated it by seceding from VA?
Last edited by Call; 11-13-2014 at 12:58 PM..
Reason: P.S.
Lately, however, I’ve been thinking about this perceived mythical greatness that has been bestowed upon Mr. Lincoln. Can we really consider him to be a great president if over 600k people died during the Civil War?
Have you any reason to think that the War would have cost fewer lives had it taken place under another POTUS?
No. And what's this "consensus" business? Maybe #1 worst, with FDR and maybe Woodrow Wilson trailing.
P.S. Wasn't WV the "state" that thought that secession was wrong, and demonstrated it by seceding from VA?
That's not at all true about WV. Look further up in this thread. I posted a link to a web site with all kinds of truth about the formation of WV. It's not what you learned in history class.
Like most Americans students, I was taught that Lincoln was one of the best presidents we’ve had in our relatively short history as an independent nation. Slavery, after all, was ended under his administration.
Lately, however, I’ve been thinking about this perceived mythical greatness that has been bestowed upon Mr. Lincoln. Can we really consider him to be a great president if over 600k people died during the Civil War? Granted, the United States and the rest ofthe world would probably look totally different today had the south been allowed to secede, but surely slavery would have ultimately died of natural causes shortly after the south gained independence. I imagine the North and the rest of the world would have probably imposed tough economic sanctions on the south until the slaves were free.
So what are your thoughts? Am I wrong for questioning the consensus #1 president?
I always wondered who would win in a fight between Lincoln and George Washington.
No. And what's this "consensus" business? Maybe #1 worst, with FDR and maybe Woodrow Wilson trailing.
P.S. Wasn't WV the "state" that thought that secession was wrong, and demonstrated it by seceding from VA?
Hey Thomas DiLorenzo, is that you? lol. Yeah FDR #2 worst, Lincoln worst. I shudder to think of the list of your great presidents. Go read a history book, or at least a few.
No. And what's this "consensus" business? Maybe #1 worst, with FDR and maybe Woodrow Wilson trailing.
I smell a Glenn Beck University 'graduate'.
Quote:
P.S. Wasn't WV the "state" that thought that secession was wrong, and demonstrated it by seceding from VA?
Forgive me for stating the glaringly obvious, but the political impetus behind West Virginia thought that secession from the United States was unconstitutional.
Why on Earth you think a group of loyal to the Constitution of the United States would consider it wrong to disassociate themselves from a state traitorous to the Union by affirming their loyalty to the United States is beyond me - because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Lincoln is now my number 2, Obama beats them all. There was no law banning a state from leaving the Union, so "preserving the Union", was a made up reason for the war. So 600,000 men killed over a needless war, and half the country in flames. There were other options for eventually ending slavery legally without a war. Also, you may not know, Lincoln became a dictator during the war. He deported a congressman, put something like 5000 opponents of the war in prison, shut down newspapers. Not exactly a respecter of the Bill of Rights.
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