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Old 05-23-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,770,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Short answer: they didn't.
This is technically correct, though they did give more votes to the Nazis than they gave to any other party separately.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
I hadn't realized that - that Hitler was never actually elected
Elections in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-24-2014, 02:30 AM
 
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What hasn't been brought up in this thread so far is that there was a genuine fear of communism in Germany.

Germany did have a communist party and in 1932 they polled 10% of the vote. The conservative elements of Germany feared the threat of communist, particularly after the success of the communist takeover in Russia and the establishment of the Soviet Union and the attempted communist coup in 1919 following the collapse of the Kaiser's regime. The success of fascism in parts of Europe was a direct reaction to the deep fear of communism and the Nazis benefited from not only being very vocally opposed to communism but willing to physically combat and attack pro-communist groups. The "red" threat was a serious psychological fear that haunted Europe in the interwar years and cannot be understated.

The onset of the Great Depression hurt German industries and the economic elite feared that many people would turn to communism. They did not like Hitler or the Nazis, but as the Nazis had shown themselves effective at attacking the communists groups, they were perceived as the lesser of two evils. Thus the traditional conservative parties of Germany agreed to enter into a coalition with the Nazis, even if they did so holding their noses.

Had the Communist Party been willing to enter a coalition with the Socialist, they would have been able to form a governing majority, and history could be quite different.
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Old 05-24-2014, 02:50 AM
 
2,004 posts, read 3,403,583 times
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Think about it. Why do we elect the fools that we do?
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Old 05-24-2014, 03:39 AM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,035,571 times
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Prof Adam Tooze:
"Three times between 1933 and 1939 Hitler’s regime dramatically accelerated the pace of economic recovery and rearmament only to find itself facing potentially crippling shortages of foreign exchange. In 1934, 1936-37 and 1939, it teetered on the edge of crisis. Each time the crisis was resolved, but at the expense of cutting back on one or other aspect of economic expansion. Goering’s much-quoted choice between ‘guns or butter’..."
..
..
"Just as the SA leadership were eliminated to ensure Army control over the rearmament programme, the priorities of the military were also ruthlessly asserted in the economic sphere. The choice thereafter was not between ‘guns or butter’ but between ‘guns or exports’."
Each time Germany was in economic crisis Hitler blamed the Jews.
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Old 05-24-2014, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Central Nebraska
553 posts, read 593,292 times
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The Nazis were around before Hitler. After World War I he was employed as some sort of detective and sent to check on this obscure group called the Nazis. All they needed was a charismatic leader and that Hitler supplied. The Nazis simply took Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution and asked the logical question: Who are the fittest humans? Circa 1900 it was obvious the White Man ruled the world. The Japanese were the only non-Whites who could approach the White Man on something like equality. The Germanic peoples were the most successful Whites with the Brtitish Empire (the English were descendants of Germans who had settled in the British Isles) and the accomplishments of Germans, Dutch, and Scandinavians.

According to Darwin's Theory of Evolution there is a great Struggle for Survival--hence the Nazis (and other Fascists) emphasized war. This Struggle was fiercest among members of the same species because they were competing with one another for the same resources. There were differences among individuals and those with differences that helped them survive were more likely to succeed--hence the Master Race--and all others must be eliminated because they were competing with them for the same resources--hence the concentration camps. As you can see, in any intelligent debate the scientific facts were on the side of the Nazis. One may have found their conclusions repugnant--but you had to go outside Logic and Science to decide that.

It is dangerous to dismiss the Nazis as deranged nutcases; they were the logical result of Science and Education bereft of Moral Grounding--and that pretty much describes America today.
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,256 posts, read 64,165,784 times
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Btw, Jews were not that high on the Nazi agenda. They are the first thing we think of but were more a sad byproduct.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,540,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallybalt View Post
What hasn't been brought up in this thread so far is that there was a genuine fear of communism in Germany.

Germany did have a communist party and in 1932 they polled 10% of the vote. The conservative elements of Germany feared the threat of communist, particularly after the success of the communist takeover in Russia and the establishment of the Soviet Union and the attempted communist coup in 1919 following the collapse of the Kaiser's regime. The success of fascism in parts of Europe was a direct reaction to the deep fear of communism and the Nazis benefited from not only being very vocally opposed to communism but willing to physically combat and attack pro-communist groups. The "red" threat was a serious psychological fear that haunted Europe in the interwar years and cannot be understated.

The onset of the Great Depression hurt German industries and the economic elite feared that many people would turn to communism. They did not like Hitler or the Nazis, but as the Nazis had shown themselves effective at attacking the communists groups, they were perceived as the lesser of two evils. Thus the traditional conservative parties of Germany agreed to enter into a coalition with the Nazis, even if they did so holding their noses.

Had the Communist Party been willing to enter a coalition with the Socialist, they would have been able to form a governing majority, and history could be quite different.
You are missing a very important point regarding the rise of "The Right" in Europe during the 20s and 30s.
In most cases the popular support for the left or the socialists was much higher than the support of the right. Spain is a good example of how the right won out over the social progressives. Spain had an elected "Communist" government that had wide support among the average Spaniard. However the opposition though small in numbers had huge financial and international support. This support came from two different camps. Firstly, both domestic and international Corporations, The old 1% again. They would destroy the entire country and did so in order to preserve their exalted position. Franco's army consisted mostly of foreign mercenaries, North African Moors mostly, who were largely financed by the Spanish Tobacco cartel. Mostly this war to put down the hopes of the people was fought by Italian and German forces who had already crushed any and all hope of a just society in their countries.

Secondly the other classic and historical agent of oppression in Europe supported these Fascists in any manner they could. The Roman Catholic Church aided and abetted the far Right whenever and however it could.
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:34 AM
 
Location: USA
30,620 posts, read 21,792,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
Prof Adam Tooze:
"Three times between 1933 and 1939 Hitler’s regime dramatically accelerated the pace of economic recovery and rearmament only to find itself facing potentially crippling shortages of foreign exchange. In 1934, 1936-37 and 1939, it teetered on the edge of crisis. Each time the crisis was resolved, but at the expense of cutting back on one or other aspect of economic expansion. Goering’s much-quoted choice between ‘guns or butter’..."
..
..
"Just as the SA leadership were eliminated to ensure Army control over the rearmament programme, the priorities of the military were also ruthlessly asserted in the economic sphere. The choice thereafter was not between ‘guns or butter’ but between ‘guns or exports’."
Each time Germany was in economic crisis Hitler blamed the Jews.

And the communist and every other group that was a threat.
Text book example of how to take over an entire country:
A charismatic leader creates an enemy(s) to rally against.
Demonize and discredit all opposition, whether its opposing parties, groups or individuals.
Have a national spy organization to keep tabs on all opposition: citizens and foreigners alike.
Create a national Police forces to enforce your parties ideals.
Eliminate threats through imprisonment or death whether at home or abroad.
Have an educational system that reinforces your parties ideals and discredits the opposition.

Could happen almost anywhere.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:15 AM
 
1,161 posts, read 2,437,998 times
Reputation: 2613
I'm not going to delve into Spain as I know little about that particular country's history. But for the Germans it was Soviet communism that they thought of when the specter of communism arose. The Soviet overthrow of the Tsarist and White Russian governments was hardly peaceful, and not only that, the rest of Europe watched as the Russian upper and middle classes were systematically destroyed, dispossessed and brutally repressed, and Russia ripped apart in a violent civil war between the Reds and Whites.

Trying to boil it down to the 1% is simplifying the fear. Communism offered much to its followers who were attracted to the movement as it promised a complete overthrow of the status quo and a radical restructuring of how society operated. That's why many people, not just the 1%, feared communism. Germany had a much bigger middle class compared to Russia and they had much more to lose, so it's not so surprising that some of the strongest support for the Nazis came from the petit bourgeoisie, the lower middle classes. While the upper and the more prosperous middle classes reluctantly tolerated the Nazis, the lower middle classes eagerly embraced Hitler because he promised stability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
You are missing a very important point regarding the rise of "The Right" in Europe during the 20s and 30s.
In most cases the popular support for the left or the socialists was much higher than the support of the right. Spain is a good example of how the right won out over the social progressives. Spain had an elected "Communist" government that had wide support among the average Spaniard. However the opposition though small in numbers had huge financial and international support. This support came from two different camps. Firstly, both domestic and international Corporations, The old 1% again. They would destroy the entire country and did so in order to preserve their exalted position. Franco's army consisted mostly of foreign mercenaries, North African Moors mostly, who were largely financed by the Spanish Tobacco cartel. Mostly this war to put down the hopes of the people was fought by Italian and German forces who had already crushed any and all hope of a just society in their countries.

Secondly the other classic and historical agent of oppression in Europe supported these Fascists in any manner they could. The Roman Catholic Church aided and abetted the far Right whenever and however it could.

Last edited by Tallybalt; 05-24-2014 at 11:26 AM..
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