Why did the French sit on their hands early in World War Two? (England, state)
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Let me try again. Sometimes, being occupied is not as bad as a war. OK? If you disagree, that is your opinion. But the basic principle is not all that hard to comprehend.
I see your point, but where you came off the rails was your first sentence. You said Germany could amass enough troops to occupy regardless of what the French did. What does that even mean? Are you saying that while Germany was tied down in Poland they still could have amassed enough troops to invade and occupy France? Or are you talking about the aftermath of the German invasion and quick successes? Either way, your comments are out of context to the topic of this thread.
At the time of invasion, France was the only military power IN Western Europe, more than capable of stopping Germany. The other ones were USSR and Britain, but Britain was not physically "in" the European continent.
USSR government offered France and Britain treaty to ally against Germans that was dragged and refused.
USSR offered Poland same, but fed with British promises, Poland chose otherwise, and lost to Germany in 2 weeks, while Britain - or its real rulers - balked out of any promises.
Germany was prepped, starting with SUDDEN rise of NSDAP, and Hitler as the front face of choice, for years, to go East and restore financial elite grasp over Russia's riches. Trotsky didn't work out, so substitute was found, from the 5th column men, aka bolsheviks of his kind, in external invasion, aka Nazi Germany invasion.
But to do so, considering immense might of the USSR/Russia, there should have been 2 fundamental preparations accomplished:
1. Germany had to have adequate power to do so. Hence, what Germany didn't have or needed, was handed to it, esp in the weapon industry of Czechs, metal ores of Spain and Scandinavia, and stratigic coal and oil supplies of Romania, Rure and Saar. Look at any country annexed, or allied with, by Germany, before they turned East - it's either industrial, or mineral value to increase and feed German military potential, or is blocking from direct attacks, or distracts USSR military power from its western borders (Japan).
2. Before directed East, Germany was assured NOT to have a 2nd front. As the result, the one and only military power, capable of doing so, France, was handed to Germany. Once again, same "Britain" ( I have to do this, as Britain itself had little to do with this, but the center of financial elite is physically located in the London City, so "Britain" it is) promised alliance with France - and simply let Germany have it on a plate with golden border. Read on "Strange war".
After this, Germany was cleared to go East. So it did.
It's that simple, boys and girls.
At the time of invasion, France was the only military power IN Western Europe, more than capable of stopping Germany. The other ones were USSR and Britain, but Britain was not physically "in" the European continent.
USSR government offered France and Britain treaty to ally against Germans that was dragged and refused.
USSR offered Poland same, but fed with British promises, Poland chose otherwise, and lost to Germany in 2 weeks, while Britain - or its real rulers - balked out of any promises.
Germany was prepped, starting with SUDDEN rise of NSDAP, and Hitler as the front face of choice, for years, to go East and restore financial elite grasp over Russia's riches. Trotsky didn't work out, so substitute was found, from the 5th column men, aka bolsheviks of his kind, in external invasion, aka Nazi Germany invasion.
But to do so, considering immense might of the USSR/Russia, there should have been 2 fundamental preparations accomplished:
1. Germany had to have adequate power to do so. Hence, what Germany didn't have or needed, was handed to it, esp in the weapon industry of Czechs, metal ores of Spain and Scandinavia, and stratigic coal and oil supplies of Romania, Rure and Saar. Look at any country annexed, or allied with, by Germany, before they turned East - it's either industrial, or mineral value to increase and feed German military potential, or is blocking from direct attacks, or distracts USSR military power from its western borders (Japan).
2. Before directed East, Germany was assured NOT to have a 2nd front. As the result, the one and only military power, capable of doing so, France, was handed to Germany. Once again, same "Britain" ( I have to do this, as Britain itself had little to do with this, but the center of financial elite is physically located in the London City, so "Britain" it is) promised alliance with France - and simply let Germany have it on a plate with golden border. Read on "Strange war".
After this, Germany was cleared to go East. So it did.
It's that simple, boys and girls.
Britain and France probably had a hard time justifying an alliance with an evil dictatorship that butchered 20 million of its own citizens before the war began and had plans to invade and occupy vast parts of Europe. So I can see the hesitation there.
Nobody expected France to collapse so quickly. France had a large standing army at least equal to the German army facing it. France also had the assistance of the smaller British Expeditionary Force and the Belgian/Dutch forces. The combined total Allied forces were larger in numbers than the invading Germans. Most people expected France to put up a strong fight.
The British Expeditionary Force was small by design because they were meant to supplement the large French army. The British would later send additional troops to France as needed as the war progressed. This is what happened in WW1. This never materialized due to the rapid German victories. Britain sent additional forces to France, but they were withdrawn as the situation quickly deteriorated.
The French (and British) expected a similar war to the last one. All they had to do was assume a defensive position and blockade the Germans into oblivion. Just like in the last war, the Germans would be forced to defeat France in order to win the war and thus would be forced to take the offensive. On paper the French were superior to the Germans and because of their performance in the last war the French army was regarded as the best in the world. Nobody, not even the most optimistic Germans foresaw the Anglo-French disaster of 1940. The best army in the world manning defensive fortifications and a suffocating blockade looked like a sure win on paper.
After the defeat of Poland, German generals wanted Hitler assassinatedas the thought of war with the UK & France was daunting for them. General Halder always carried a pistol with him when meeting Hitlerready to shoot him. His oath to the leader prevented him from doing so whenpressed.
Prof Tooze states that Germany could never have won a war against any of the UK, France, USSR or the USA as it stood in 1939. Their army was dwarfed by the UK and France combined with the French having superior tanks and more of them. They never had a navy to what the British and French had. Germany could not win a sustained war, as it could not beat the British naval blockade of food and materials. The blockade meant Germany did not even have enough rubber for tyres. To attack the British and French was foolish in 1940, but Hitler was a wild gambler. The panzer units pushed back the superior British, Dutch, Belgian and French armies - the British did not deploy most of their army in France with only 9% of the combined total. The defeat was total Allied incompetence.
The Germans attacked with a chain of coordinated tanks and trucks that needed to run 24 hours with the drivers given the amphetamine "Speed" to keep them awake. If the chain was broken the attack failed. The French could have broken it if they concentrated all their large air force on the vehicle columns entering France and Belgium. They did but not enough. Most of the German army marched into France pulling guns on horses way behind the tanks.
After the debacle, the British and French stated the Germans had superior equipment, the blitzkrieg, which they never, as an excuse for the incompetent debacle. The Germans said they won because they are superior people, not because of their equipment. The German wild gamble paid off beyond their wildest dreams occupying France and the low countries in three weeks.
At the time of invasion, France was the only military power IN Western Europe, more than capable of stopping Germany. The other ones were USSR and Britain, but Britain was not physically "in" the European continent.
USSR government offered France and Britain treaty to ally against Germans that was dragged and refused.
USSR offered Poland same, but fed with British promises, Poland chose otherwise, and lost to Germany in 2 weeks, while Britain - or its real rulers - balked out of any promises.
What might these promises be?
Quote:
2. Before directed East, Germany was assured NOT to have a 2nd front. As the result, the one and only military power, capable of doing so, France, was handed to Germany. Once again, same "Britain" ( I have to do this, as Britain itself had little to do with this, but the center of financial elite is physically located in the London City, so "Britain" it is) promised alliance with France - and it on a plate with golden border.
WW2 was first war where mechanized infantry, armor and mobile artillery existed
That was WW1. First effectively used in the Battle of Amiens by the British who used 400 planes and tanks in a combined forces operation.
The British and French did believe they could contain any German attack in the west and hopefully force the Germans into signing an armistice.
In September 1939 the UK had few troops in France. The BEF started to move into France. Any land fighting would be done initially by the French. The UK primarily would supplement the French air force and supply naval such as the blockade of Germany.
The BEF was the world's first motorized army - men never marched. It was more mobile than the French Army in it outlook, however the French did have whole units of tanks, with tanks the Germans could not knock out.
After the defeat of Poland, German generals wanted Hitler assassinatedas the thought of war with the UK & France was daunting for them. General Halder always carried a pistol with him when meeting Hitlerready to shoot him. His oath to the leader prevented him from doing so whenpressed.
Prof Tooze states that Germany could never have won a war against any of the UK, France, USSR or the USA as it stood in 1939. Their army was dwarfed by the UK and France combined with the French having superior tanks and more of them. They never had a navy to what the British and French had. Germany could not win a sustained war, as it could not beat the British naval blockade of food and materials. The blockade meant Germany did not even have enough rubber for tyres. To attack the British and French was foolish in 1940, but Hitler was a wild gambler. The panzer units pushed back the superior British, Dutch, Belgian and French armies - the British did not deploy most of their army in France with only 9% of the combined total. The defeat was total Allied incompetence.
The Germans attacked with a chain of coordinated tanks and trucks that needed to run 24 hours with the drivers given the amphetamine "Speed" to keep them awake. If the chain was broken the attack failed. The French could have broken it if they concentrated all their large air force on the vehicle columns entering France and Belgium. They did but not enough. Most of the German army marched into France pulling guns on horses way behind the tanks.
After the debacle, the British and French stated the Germans had superior equipment, the blitzkrieg, which they never, as an excuse for the incompetent debacle. The Germans said they won because they are superior people, not because of their equipment. The German wild gamble paid off beyond their wildest dreams occupying France and the low countries in three weeks.
The French air force was small and obsolete compared to the Luftwaffe. The Luftwaffe outnumbered the French air force about 4:1 in planes, and 2:1 over the combined British/French planes in the theater. This is supported by every credible publication known to man, yet you continue to perpetuate this myth.
The Luftwaffe dominated the skies over the battlefield in France. This is precisely why the German troops and tanks were able to march into France without fear of being bombed. The Germans could have rode into France on bicycles. There was never a threat of French planes bombing German troop columns. In fact, it was quite the opposite. The French troop and tank movements were paralyzed due to the Luftwaffe's continual dive bombing. The French and British planes that tried to attack the troop columns were shot down with heavy losses.
The Germans did have superior equipment in many cases. You hold the French tanks up on a mantel, but they were slower than the German tanks. The French also lacked radios in their tanks, so their communications were lacking. These are reasons why they failed to respond quickly enough to German offensives.
The French air force was small and obsolete compared to the Luftwaffe.
The combined French and UK air forces could have disrupted the German columns without doubt. The French Dewoitine D.520 was state of the art fighter and a match for any German plane. The relations between the French air forces and army was poor. The Luftwaffe did not dominated the skies over the battlefields in France. The RAF had air superiority over Dunkirk and gave the Luftwaffe their first defeat. The German troops and tanks were able to march into France because the British and French were going the other way.
The Germans did not have superior equipment. The only thing superior was the radio communications between tanks. 50% of German tanks only had machine guns.
Even after the Dunkirk pocket was formed the French and British could have driven a wedge between the German army which was in a long line from Germany. The Blitzkrieg was now useless. Large French forces were to the south and the Dunkirk pocket could have dug in with air superiority with the new Spitfire first appearing in France - it shot down German bombers over the UK previously. A plan was drawn up to counter attack. It was shelved and retreat (evacuation) was chosen by the British. All studies decades after show it would have had a high probability of success.
France was betrayed by it's own homegrown Nazis. The real power in France resided in what was called the "Deux cent Families". These people were the economic royalists of the day and were for the most part extreme right wing zealots. They hated the "Third Republic" and everything it stood for. Equality, freedom, social advances and all other progressive ideas were dirty words to the two hundred families. They referred to the France of the 3rd Republic as "The ****" and they actually had a slogan regarding their political leader of the time, Leon Blum. "Better Hitler than Blum". Well they got their wish and they came to bitterly regret their treachery.
These financial leaders of France had done everything in their power to prevent France from protecting it's self from a resurgent Germany. What they desired was a France modeled basically on the Nazi pattern. A little more leaning towards Franco's Spain where "Mother Church" was a useful instrument for repressing the people.
Who do you think was responsible for keeping the USA out of the fight against the Nazis for so long? Who do you think was behind the British appeasement of Hitler for so long and actually wanted and pushed for peace terms with Hitler all throughout the war until Churchill finally squashed them once and for all. It's the exact same people who today want to take away your rights to unionize, who fight against any and all social progress. The worst scourge the earth has ever known, who has been behind every major war for the last hundred years. The cursed world wide brotherhood of the RIGHT WING NUT JOBS!!!!!!
Hitler knew France had the #1 military in the world at that time.
He decided to test France's resolve to use that military.
Hitler sent a group of German soldiers across the river in direct violation of the treaty. He did this in broad daylight and gave the troops orders to erect tents and set up camp. They were ordered the minute French troops arrived to retreat immediately back across the river and not to engage the French soldiers.
Despite France seeing German troops in broad daylight............they did nothing.
It was reported Hitler laughed and said " ah...hah" knowing France was going to do nothing.
Each time as Germany invaded a country France warned them and said.........." if you do that again, we will stop you "
Over and over and over
I have no sympathy for a country ( France) who loses to Germany despite having the #1 military and does nothing to stop Germany earlier on !
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